I agree. It's a good format. No reason to mess with it. If someone who has never played before and will never play again gets n0'd then laughs will be had.

N0 kill is a ****ing terrible for any games that aren't streamed. But in a streamed game it works just to get the audience immediately seeing a kill.

It'd be streamed.

People itt arguing that getting n0ed and not having to play is some sort of punishment and not a reward

why are votes like that? That was by far the most annoying and hardest thing to adjust to in my few times playing. The immunity with a no vote is weird to me and the fact that players don't have to vote simultaneously is also weird. It allows players to vote early or vote late to tip a lynch over the edge with the current setup.

It seems like simultaneous votes or regular votes where everyone votes throughout the day and you lynch either as time expires or at eod is a lot cleaner.

It also seems like days shouldn't really progress to extra time with randomness either. Why not just abide by the timer? This one would be by far the easiest thing to change without any confusion.

100% in

setup should be modified to not have n0s. if we get exactly 13, i'll tell the mod how to do the numbers right

going to answer these out of order because the second question is contingent on the first:

with formals/votes the way they are, rng formals at the end of the day serve the purpose of severely discouraging mechanical endings to games, most importantly. without the possibility of rng formals, mafia would 100% of the time formal and second a town in lylo with ~4 mins left in the day (game), town would cry for 4 minutes after which mafia would invariably collect win.

well then town just has to formal earlier in potential lylo, you say? well, mafia can do that, too, and don't even necessarily have to out to do it. Mafia could formal a town (or mafia) at 7 minutes, essentially filibuster 3 minutes away, then rescind and snap formal a town with ~4 minutes remaining and you've got the initial situation again.

the fact that formals can be rescinded at any time is pro-mafia in this situation because town may not realize the situation they're in until it's too late. cron won this way on SMAS a few months ago, though it was in rng's and risky because he outed in order to accomplish it. it took town a few seconds to realize what was happening and they're probably still salty about it to this day. but at least town was on equal footing in this situation and it wasn't necessarily auto-loss. once every few years is acceptable (if town are proactive it's completely avoidable, anyway) and despite no rule changes it hasn't happened again since then.

~~~

now, why is voting the way it is?

well, probably the biggest reason is - it's easy. you don't need any external voting module, you don't need props (like the red/green cards we tried out on SMAS a couple weeks), etc.

also, you're playing with people all around the world in relative real-time but there are still latency issues due to distance and internet quality. this is probably why you're given ~3 seconds to vote. getting around this requires some form of pre-voting with cards or somehow submitting votes before a simultaneous reveal that has dubious benefit tbh.

yes, it creates early/late voting, wifom, hammers, etc. both town and mafia take advantage of this as they can. it's probably not objectively good or bad, it just is. from a viewer's perspective, voting the way it's done is (usually) clear and some would say exciting. the late votes/hammers can be dramatic and the fact that these games are on twitch in part to entertain an audience shouldn't be lost when evaluating the mechanics of it all (be it voting, formals, rng's, night phases (read: salty cooldown), etc.)

~~~

immunity is also a pretty important mechanic because of the way formals/voting occur. essentially every vote is like a mini EOD in forum.

think about a situation where two cops are in a CC situation. one gets formalled and you go to a vote. if the claimed cop survives, you have a crazy amount of information in combination with the two sets of checks, any other confirmed town (outed vigis, medic saves, etc.) you could very well realize that, if that cop claim was town, mafia could have voted to kill them. this situation can occur without claims as well, most importantly in lylo situations.

when you get information from a vote and realize you ****ed up, you shouldn't get a do-over and let the game mechanically solve itself. you still get a ton of information but you have to continue on and solve around it, even if you think someone is "outed" by a vote.

(additionally, immunity prevents some forms of in-game cancer where two players repeatedly formal and second and filibuster the same person over and over if they keep failing to get them lynched because of salt/being stupid/otherwise)


~~~~~


tl;dr: bc reasons

long-winded af but hopefully that covers most of your questions >.>

Watched a DM game on the youtubes last night and it looks reasonably fun.

I'm extremely excited to watch the pog favorites play some video mafia. Maybe it'll convert a couple to playing more often.

cant the person who is being formaled force a vote which would stop the filibuster at eod from being effective?

and I definitely understand voting this way due to ease, but when other options are readily available like voting with numbered cards for who you want to lynch or something that can be done continuously or forcing people to turn off cameras and then turn them back on with a vote so its simultaneous why not use those? I get that they're slightly less convenient, but they don't seem so burdensome that they need to be avoided unless you think they are actually worse as solutions.

first point: no, they can't force the vote to occur. The person who formalled can rescind at any time. In order for a vote to be forced early, both parties need to "push to vote."

second point: It probably would be better mechanically that way, but some of the content in the game comes in "how" people vote. Late/early, smug looking, etc. It's just like in WW where you analyze people based on how their votes look.

Numbered cards is an interesting idea, but would be a pain to mod, and make sure everyone has 13+ index cards handy.

both parties (formaller and formalee) have to 'push to vote' to end a formal early. sometimes people cooperate, sometimes they don't. there are reasons why you'd to each as either alignment so it's NAI.

turning cameras off/on with a vote wouldn't work for the same reason that simultaneous voting isn't really feasible - people lag, computers lag, people could and certainly would game the system and intentionally delay by a second or two, etc. all for really dubious benefits.

voting with numbered cards... kinda vaguely similar to how russians play video mafia, maybe? they do things slightly differently. players are numbered and there's something more of like a fixed rotation of short formals/speaking. as a result hand signals are pretty prominent in their games to convey things while it's not 'your turn to talk'. I forget how the actual votes happen but it's probably closer to what you're suggesting.

we tried using red/green cards to vote for lynch/not-lynch, respectively. we'd hold them up backwards and then reveal approximately simultaneously, the important part being that you can't switch your vote according to desynchronization in reveals. people thought it would have a game-changing/game-breaking effect on how things played out. it really didn't. kinda forgot why we stopped, probably just that you can't play unless everybody has the cards and it was only something the regulars on SMAS had cards prepared for - people that played g2/filled from outside the group almost certainly didn't have them ready.

I think I was pro- voting cards just because there were a bunch of late-voting arguments and it's a contentious issue that the cards can solve with just a minor inconvenience. Hand voting is also subjective even in the best case scenarios - the mod has lag, too, they're human and make mistakes, waiting for them to watch replays on the stream to count milliseconds and change decisions, etc. are all pretty frustrating for everybody. but, again, in practice, the difference wasn't nearly as dramatic as you might expect.

what the ****


i'm just tryna play dm


adam i'll prob be modding, lmk what you're thinking

Luls at all these paragraphs.

It's just for fun, who cares if it's not perfect

In (as long as it doesn't coincide with storrbq

In my effort to learn about this DM game I stumbled upon youtube videos with players named younguns and manasi, I assume it's y'all?

Yep

Depends if he was wearing a bro tank or not

I think it's a balance thing. The games were pretty competitive last time I played / watched with no reveals, so having reveals seems like it would kill the wolves unless you gave them something else to compensate.

He was wearing a tank top, indeed.

Okay! I'm gonna start a Skype group for this throughout the next few days.

If you said you were down (bc POG mention system is ****), either post your Skype here or add me at manasixmusicxmagic

Don't judge me I made it in 4th grade.

you've been judged

no both are ****ing stupid and esp the n0 kill is a waste of everyone's time lol this being a debate iyam