Pixar Game Thread - Page 905

loosekanen · 07-02-2012, 12:59 PM

**** my life i tried super hard this game. soooo frustrating for it to end like it did. and to know that i angeled happy (when i legit thought he was a wolf for like 4 days) and the wolves tried to kill him. if i don't do that it's likely binkles/aksdal/jim going thunderdome during the last few days. that would have been pretty epic.

some good performances that i thought. actually rollwave, i thought you were really good considering the circumstances. could have been mislynched for like 4 days and if they hadn't nked me i was going to fight that lynch so hard over the weekend.

thingyman played well too.

i'm still frustrated by jim's role tbh. putting a troll role in the game was super distracting.

bsball8806 · 07-02-2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by well named

If every time I mentioned binkles maybe being a wolf 2 wolves and a villager jumped in to say it was impossible, then binkles never gets lynched, but that's good wolf play (and fortuitous mechanics of course), not just a village fail.

Is this what we're defining as good wolf play these days?

Probably

Henrik Sedin · 07-02-2012, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsball8806

Wolves played well this game in the sense that they did things right mechanically (claimed their roles early, etc.) but in the end it was the combination of the mechanics/rand/roles that allowed them to cruise to a win. The village was working off of some assumptions about most mishmashes that apparently weren't true.

I will admit that this is a huge problem in games today (where people say "I'm doing/thinking XXX because the mods would never do YYY"), but there is some limit to what YYY can actually be and have the game be a reasonable one.

yeah all the mechanical crap is why "just lynch the wolfiest player" is a good rule of thumb in mishmashes. clearing ppl incorrectly happens all the time bc it's impossible to understand what is really going on with the roles and all that.

Aksdal · 07-02-2012, 01:00 PM

uughhh

that's tilting

gg wolves
gg neutrals

Larry Legend · 07-02-2012, 01:01 PM

In after troll trivia day

JimHalpert · 07-02-2012, 01:02 PM

Take it from a "neutral" observer:

The game WAS pro wolf at the end of the day. There are a few reasons - strictly mechanically - for this:

1. The village only contained one seer in a 40 player game. With the "high" kill rate (was as many as 3-5-5 kills first 3 nights), it is likely that the seer will get got quickly.

2. Chips was considered a psuedo-seer in design I assume (gets roles not alignment as a villager). The issue is with the design of this game, the seerness of Chips is overstated and likely inaccurate: There was a wolf that would return "mason", one that would return "Mason Vig", there were two wolves that would return "lover", there was a villager that would return a role that only makes sense as a wolf (Kruze). What happens is chips actually has a greater chance of spreading misinformation than information (as happened with derwi).

3. Bsball was a naive seer (misinformation)

4. The wolves had a converter (a pretty huge role when it's not known it exists). Additionally, said converter becomes "mechanically cleared" should Eve die first, as the information given to the village is simply that he becomes a seer. The person who owns this role has already confirmed he was like never dying due to mechanics once Eve perished.

5. The wolves had a role that REVEALED VILLAGER. This gave wolves someone they could defend/attack as best they could with no repercussions down the line of spew analysis.

6. Lovers being w/w makes it difficult for the village to ever kill them. If you read the thread, Derwi and Happy were considered for being wolves, but became mechanically clear due to their role.

7. There was a pro-wolf neutral spreading chaos throughout the thread.

This doesn't take away from the wolves effort, and I dont know why thingy would be insulted to hear this? The wolves played well. But in a game in which so much misinformation is designed into the game, one of two things happen: either wolves get cleared (correctly in 99% of circumstances) like happened here, or the village has to ignore all mechanics (which is a big part of them trying to figure the game out). So in a game about wolves trying to keep information from the village while providing misinformation and the village trying to sift through all the information in front of them to arrive at the correct conclusion, the fact that so much misinformation was ingrained into it makes it prowolf.

That doesn't lessen the wolf ownage. It's just what it is.If you wanna go through it as it pertains to this game with people alive at the end:

1. Derwi and Happy are cleared multiple times because they are lovers
2. Rollwave is lynched because masonry has to be discounted
3. Binkles is like lock cleared largely derived from "he upgraded chips it makes no sense unless he got something too"
4. Thingy was cleared based on spew analysis from two days he was a villager, and without hte knowledge of a converter you have to take it at full value (obv changes if known)

I consider myself to have lost the game, but a winner in the WIM column. But I think the wolves win this game an extremely high percentage of the time this runs as a mishmash and not a vanilla+. But who really cares? The important part was the game was a blast.

Aksdal · 07-02-2012, 01:02 PM

being able to convert anybody is a role I didn't think would exist. I was clearing thingy for stuff he was doing d1 and d2. pretty annoying. then trying to find a wolf between me/wn/thingy became super difficult. I need to learn how to read xnerd :/

bsball8806 · 07-02-2012, 01:03 PM

oh yeah convertible roles are terrible

but that's a whole separate argument and i know some people will disagree with me

bsball8806 · 07-02-2012, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimHalpert

Take it from a "neutral" observer:

The game WAS pro wolf at the end of the day. There are a few reasons - strictly mechanically - for this:

1. The village only contained one seer in a 40 player game. With the "high" kill rate (was as many as 3-5-5 kills first 3 nights), it is likely that the seer will get got quickly.

2. Chips was considered a psuedo-seer in design I assume (gets roles not alignment as a villager). The issue is with the design of this game, the seerness of Chips is overstated and likely inaccurate: There was a wolf that would return "mason", one that would return "Mason Vig", there were two wolves that would return "lover", there was a villager that would return a role that only makes sense as a wolf (Kruze). What happens is chips actually has a greater chance of spreading misinformation than information (as happened with derwi).

3. Bsball was a naive seer (misinformation)

4. The wolves had a converter (a pretty huge role when it's not known it exists). Additionally, said converter becomes "mechanically cleared" should Eve die first, as the information given to the village is simply that he becomes a seer. The person who owns this role has already confirmed he was like never dying due to mechanics once Eve perished.

5. The wolves had a role that REVEALED VILLAGER. This gave wolves someone they could defend/attack as best they could with no repercussions down the line of spew analysis.

6. Lovers being w/w makes it difficult for the village to ever kill them. If you read the thread, Derwi and Happy were considered for being wolves, but became mechanically clear due to their role.

7. There was a pro-wolf neutral spreading chaos throughout the thread.

This doesn't take away from the wolves effort, and I dont know why thingy would be insulted to hear this? The wolves played well. But in a game in which so much misinformation is designed into the game, one of two things happen: either wolves get cleared (correctly in 99% of circumstances) like happened here, or the village has to ignore all mechanics (which is a big part of them trying to figure the game out). So in a game about wolves trying to keep information from the village while providing misinformation and the village trying to sift through all the information in front of them to arrive at the correct conclusion, the fact that so much misinformation was ingrained into it makes it prowolf.

That doesn't lessen the wolf ownage. It's just what it is.If you wanna go through it as it pertains to this game with people alive at the end:

1. Derwi and Happy are cleared multiple times because they are lovers
2. Rollwave is lynched because masonry has to be discounted
3. Binkles is like lock cleared largely derived from "he upgraded chips it makes no sense unless he got something too"
4. Thingy was cleared based on spew analysis from two days he was a villager, and without hte knowledge of a converter you have to take it at full value (obv changes if known)

I consider myself to have lost the game, but a winner in the WIM column. But I think the wolves win this game an extremely high percentage of the time this runs as a mishmash and not a vanilla+. But who really cares? The important part was the game was a blast.

Agree with everything in this post

JimHalpert · 07-02-2012, 01:07 PM

I do not believe I helped the village the first 8 days. I was a distraction, kept the focus off the wolf hunting, lynched a villager falsely, made claims that people had to discuss, ate a seer peek from swiitch, and was being mildly vocal about reads I'd randed. Yes I was responsible for Insanity dying and pointed towards steves eod2, but I'd hardly call that making up for it.

Aksdal · 07-02-2012, 01:07 PM

agree

the wolves definitely played reallly well, and probably better than the village, but some of these roles make it super difficult

JimHalpert · 07-02-2012, 01:08 PM

Like, I think people need to remember it is INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT to design a mishmash with unique roles, otes, prizes, and lots of PRs and have it be perfectly balanced. I really appreciate what they went for this game - even if it ended up not being perfect.

derwipok · 07-02-2012, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsball8806

Agree with everything in this post

I disagree with some of the stuff actually.

Re 1: The seer isn't that likely to be killed early because he was a mason and masons usually don't have extra powers.

Re 6: This completely ignores that wolves can easily kill the lovers (they in fact tried that once). I think it was a huge outlier that me and happy made it to the end.

derwipok · 07-02-2012, 01:14 PM

Fwiw I found it pretty weird that there were lots of

theories about the cleared players but noone mentioned that binkles could be a wolf RB/tracker/watcher/X who activates Eve by accident.

bsball8806 · 07-02-2012, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derwipok

I disagree with some of the stuff actually.

Re 1: The seer isn't that likely to be killed early because he was a mason and masons usually don't have extra powers.

Re 6: This completely ignores that wolves can easily kill the lovers (they in fact tried that once). I think it was a huge outlier that me and happy made it to the end.

Most masons don't decide to out themselves on d1...and even if they do, it's perfectly reasonable to kill a mason there in that situation (this wouldn't be close to the first game where they had extra powers)