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Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Christmas Light Problem (From real life!)

12-12-2014 , 04:38 AM
Answer:

Okay, there is a slight inaccuracy in the problem. I said brightness is proportional to current. That is incorrect, it is proportional to POWER (voltage * current). But in this case voltage is constant so... details

Anyway:

So if the individual bulbs in string A and string B have equal brightness then:

Given:
V0 = A/C line voltage
i = current for that string
rA, rB = resistance of individual bulbs of type A or B

V0 * iA/100 = V0 * iB/50;

or

iA = 2iB

And since the V0 is the same (A/C wall voltage) we also have:

using v = i*r

iA*rA*100 = iB * rB * 50

substitute iA = 2iB from above:

2iB*rA*100 = iB*rB*50

or 4 rA = rB

For Q1:

Voltage across bulb A = V0 * rA/(rA + 49 * 4 * rA) = V0/197
Voltage across one of bulb B = V0 * 4 * rA/(rA + 49 * 4 * rA) = V0 * 4/197

Bulb B is brighter!

For Q2:

Voltage across bulb B = V0 * 4 * rA/(4 * rA + 49 * rA) = V0 * 4/53
Voltage across one of bulb A = V0 * rA/(4 * rA + 49 * rA) = V0 * 1/53

Bulb B is brighter! (And actually so bright it almost instantly burns out)
Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Quote
12-12-2014 , 05:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_K
Okay, there is a slight inaccuracy in the problem. I said brightness is proportional to current. That is incorrect, it is proportional to POWER (voltage * current). But in this case voltage is constant so... details
Not to be nitpicky, but in this case it is important, since you need to calculate voltage across individual bulbs which obv isn't constant to compare brightness, so that inaccuracy made the problem insolvable
Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Quote
12-12-2014 , 05:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treep
Thought about it this morning in the shower and found that it is either incredibly easy or I am stupid and should reread my electrical engineering textbook from first semester.
Because if you're really stringing them in series and if brightness really is proportional to current, in both scenarios the bulbs should all have the same brightness.
Yup, we care about the voltage across each bulb, which means resistance is what we care about.
Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Quote
12-12-2014 , 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_K
You have 2 types of Christmas light bulbs:

Bulb 'A' which has brightness L when used in a string (in series) of 100 of them and plugged into electricity.

Bulb 'B' which has brightness L when used in a string (in series) of 50 of them and plugged into electricity.

Questions:

1. If I plug into electricity 1 Bulb of type 'A' and 49 bulbs of type 'B' all in series, which is brighter 'A' or 'B'?

2. If I plug into electricity 1 Bulb of type 'B' and 49 bulbs of type 'A' all in series, which is brighter 'A' or 'B'?
'A' bulbs are designed for 1.1V. `B` bulbs are designed for 2.2V. If the bulb gets less voltage than designed for they won't be as bright. If they get too much voltage then they will quickly (sometimes instantly burn out after being way too bright).

Therefore:

1) All bulbs are getting 2.2V. The 'B' bulbs are designed for this so they are normal while the 1 'A' bulb is designed to operate at 1.1V. So it will shine brighter and burn out.

2) Again, all bulbs are getting 2.2V. The 1 `B` bulb is designed for this, so it will be normal while all of the `A` bulbs are getting double there rated voltage and will burn out quickly. If they short as designed to keep others burning, then a cascade failure of the entire string will happen as the voltage goes up as each bulb fails.
Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Quote
12-12-2014 , 10:36 AM
And because they are rated by equal luminosity = equal power, which is proportional to the square of voltage (or current), the scalar for the resistance between the two is 4 not 2
Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Quote
12-12-2014 , 03:00 PM
if you walk in the desert for 40 days and 40 nights they will last 8 days
Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Quote
12-12-2014 , 06:03 PM
Are A bulbs not just generally brighter because they sustain the same brightness as B bulbs for 2x the amount of bulbs in the series?
Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Quote
12-12-2014 , 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero Value
Are A bulbs not just generally brighter because they sustain the same brightness as B bulbs for 2x the amount of bulbs in the series?
No, because each bulb is the same brightness (not each string of bulbs).
Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Quote
12-12-2014 , 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treep
Not to be nitpicky, but in this case it is important, since you need to calculate voltage across individual bulbs which obv isn't constant to compare brightness, so that inaccuracy made the problem insolvable
Perhaps. But when I said voltage is constant, I meant for the individual situations of the all Bulb A string and all Bulb B string. so brightness is proportional to current in that specific derivative case.

In the two scenario's in the questions, the current is constant (as defined by each being a series of bulbs).
Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Quote
12-13-2014 , 04:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_K
Perhaps. But when I said voltage is constant, I meant for the individual situations of the all Bulb A string and all Bulb B string. so brightness is proportional to current in that specific derivative case.

In the two scenario's in the questions, the current is constant (as defined by each being a series of bulbs).
And you're still wrong...
Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Quote
12-13-2014 , 05:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokiri
And you're still wrong...
?
Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Quote
12-13-2014 , 05:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokiri
And you're still wrong...
About what?
Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Quote
12-13-2014 , 05:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_K
Perhaps. But when I said voltage is constant, I meant for the individual situations of the all Bulb A string and all Bulb B string. so brightness is proportional to current in that specific derivative case.

In the two scenario's in the questions, the current is constant (as defined by each being a series of bulbs).
Yes, thats all correct, with voltage and current being constant in these specific cases, but that makes your hint "brightness is proportional to current" still not helpful, if to solve the question you need to know that brightness is also proportional to voltage. I mean, it's not a problem when one googles brightness to check it, but as I said, I was in the shower thinking about this, so no google
Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Quote
12-13-2014 , 07:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_K
?
If not wrong, at least barking up the wrong tree. We care about one bulb (because what does it mean to say the brightness of one hundred lamps its the same as fifty - that's a different question) and in that context brightness isn't proportional to current and voltage isn't constant.
Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Quote
12-13-2014 , 07:01 AM
resistance is futile
Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Quote
12-13-2014 , 10:02 AM
ja volt
Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Quote
12-13-2014 , 10:41 AM
lets not all get amped up here
Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Quote
12-13-2014 , 10:53 AM
Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Quote
12-13-2014 , 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Moocher
resistance is fusetile
Fyp
Christmas Light Problem (From real life!) Quote

      
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