what do you mean moving? 3D is forcing, right?

i'd just bid 6D

6D is probably right at IMPs. At matchpoints it's a bit harder. The par spot is probably 6DX or 6HS, –1 or maybe –2, but I'm wondering whether there's a way to go plus here. Maybe walk it with 2D (the auction won't end), then a minimum bid in diamonds (probably 5). Getting doubled in 5D is at least possible, and that's what we should hope for.

Note that LHO is probably not void in hearts, considering the auction (partner didn't raise). And if he's void in diamonds he would probably have had a michaels bid. SO we are beating 6S most of the time, and angling for that is also a decent shot, which is why 6D works at least reasonably well.

We are not making 6 because the diamond queen is offside most of the time.

If I were slightly weaker such that I were sure it were opps' hand I would consider 2C.

Sure, but you didn't open 2C and partner has a passed hand yarborough. 3D greatly undervalues the strength of your hand. What useful information will he be able to give you after:

1H-(x)-P-(1S)
3D-(4S)-?

How is he supposed to take a (in his mind) sac here when you may be beating 4S? So he's probably passing, and you are bidding 5D now. Is he really going to raise to 6 with:

xxxx
xx
xxxx
xxx

I wasn't at the table unfortunately when this was played, my partner gave me the problem and asked what I would bid. I said 6D, and we had a pretty mixed poll from people with choices as follows:

5D-1
6D-4
4D-3
3D-3
2S-1

Dummy hit with



Forgot to mention this was IMPs.

How on earth can 3D be forcing in this auction when partner passes over 1H - X? You misread the auction, right (or I am)?

I'd happily bid 3D here with something like

-
KQxxxx
AJxxxx
x

for the preemptive value, and we're a weeeeee bit stronger here.

I think I prefer 2S (cue) then something like 5D the next time -- partners with red queens should wake up to that. 6D directly seems like it is a good way to go down one when we were beating 5S a trick, though I concede it could work.

they're going to bid 6S as cheap insurance so often there's no reason to do anything other than make their guess more difficult.

3D just makes it easier on the opponents and harder on partner.

True that 6S will be bid a lot of the time. This is another reason I'm wondering whether there's a semi-psych or dogwalk available. Not sure a club bid will fool anyone, unfortunately, once we break out the diamonds.

It does seem to me that 3D has no upside: advertises the strength and true shape while giving opps room anyway. Dc is worried that partner won't move, but I don't think we give a damn what partner has as long as he chooses a red.

Oh, DW mentions partner with red queens. First, he almost never has them on this auction; second, if he has them we're making and if he doesn't we may be making and may have a good sac. The only card that we care about him having is the spade ace for a grand, and that's unlikely enough I'll let the chance go.

I'm not advocating 3D as a practical bid -- forcing or not. But I did think it was forcing (am rethinking it -- I'm probably just looney tunes, standard) and was just taking issue with partner "not moving" over your force.

Punting 6 diamonds is practical, since they will often bid 6S and you expect to beat it. 5D second choice, but I'm not confident we're beating 5S. These bids at least make it clear to partner that you have a big red two-suiter.

An alternate line is to cue and then bid a lot of diamonds, but I definitely think eating the opps' room is the best bet.

fwiw, I would not be confident partner will take 3D as forcing, and I'm not sure it should be opposite a passed partner.

If we're cuebidding I think doing it at a fairly high level (to eat up room) is best — say 4S. LHO can double this to show willingness to go forward, though, so 5D (or higher) is better at eating room.

I do think that 2D (not 3!) is a viable alternative as it could make a 6S protective bid less likely. I'm thinking something like

1H (X) – P (1S)
2D (2H) – P (2S)
3D (3S) – P (4S)
5D (5S) – P (P)
6D (X) – 6H (X)
all pass

Edit with math: We may not make slam, but if we are, this is the way to get to play it. And since we're probably beating 6S only one or two when they bid it, we are willing to take a chance at (let's assume all vul — dc didn't say what the colors were) 1660 instead of 200 or 500.

Suppose it's 1660 (when it works; –200 when it doesn't) instead of 500, and the other table is always playing in 6SX. Then when we play 6HX we get +1160 or –700, for +15 or –12 IMPs, so we need to have it make about 45% for it to be good to get to play it.

If the result in 6SX is down just 1, same other assumptions, we are +1460 or –400, for +16 or –9; we need a 36% chance of making for this to be good.

And if there's even a tiny chance 6S is making (I sincerely doubt it, but w/e), it's clear we want to buy it.

Overall, I think we want the chance at playing slam, and against poor or average opposition I believe 2D is right. Against good opps, 6D gives them the least amount of time to have an intelligent conversation, so is best.

I would be a little worried about having a diamond loser in 6D. LHO has made a t/o double in hearts, we expect him to have at least 2 dimonds for his bid, often 3+. With 3+ and values there is a good chance he has the queen. Sure 6D is making most of the time when pard lays down 4 trumps but punting slams expecting to make with 4 card support isn't too reliable. Maybe he has the X and bid in clubs? That would be fun.

Not saying 6D is a bad bid, we probably expect to make it around 50% of the time. I might just bid 2S myself, expecting to rebid 4 or 5 diamonds. 3D is my other option, and shows a pretty strong hand. If my partner didn't raise 3D with 4 trumps and a singleton (or 2D for that matter) he would be buying drinks later.

Also why does everyone think 6S will be bid so often? A t/o X opp a minimum response seems very unlikely to produce a 6 level sacrifice. RHO can't bid it and LHO probably won't.

You are more likely to be playing 6H than 6D (because of the TO double), and you'll therefore be ruffing out the D queen fairly often - that's how you're making slam, when you do. (I get that the actual hand was otherwise; I'm talking probabilities.)

Re 6s being bid: pard usually has heart support here, yet passed after the double. He's broke, and as you say, RHO made a minimum response, so LHO has extras. Also, the void in a suit that hasn't been bid yet tells us there's extra shape out there, maybe a whole lot of it. That's why I think 6S is not unlikely.

I think we are more likely to have a D fit given partners pass. I don't know the style of others here but I would expect partner to make a preemtive raise with 4 card hearts pretty well all of the time. He could have 3 easily, but I think we're in diamonds a lot. Pard could be 3/3 in the reds also