7/19 Lizards From Outer Space Game Thread

[tappokone]

Originally Posted by El_Timon

Can you expand on how to get a read on VMF? I think I've played with him in most of my games and I have no clue how to read him. In the burn notice game he was a villager but he was fairly UTR for most of the game and ended up being mislynched. How do you distinguish between his unmotivated villa game and his wolf game?

You're focusing on meta a lot. Your only game-specific post was the one in which you voted for Ufo. Even there you didn't really find him wolfy; you just wanted a reaction.

I'm pondering whether I should vote for you, but maybe it's just a style thing. Say something reassuring.

[Aksdal]

********Mod Note: Donkdonkdonkdonk is subbing in for Fixated********

[Zayana]

Originally Posted by captain binkles

Sup br0s, just saw the new batman movie, it was pretty good.

I haven't bothered to read the thread properly yet, but I did notice a few things:

1. It was weird how SIU attacked UFO/others for calling me wolfy earlier just because I'm hard to read. Like, there's no harm in trying, I'm far from unreadable :P I'll look at it properly in a bit to actually get a better feel for whether it's wolfy or not.

2. I'd rather we stopped talking about seer cover.

3. Olhado said in a response to me that he posts a lot as a wolf (quantity > quality) - which I assume means that he also posts a lot as a villager to replicate. But then in a later post said that he seriously doubted he'd get to fifty posts. You'll have to explain that one to me champ.

4. My biggest strength as a villager is probably my ability to piece a game together in my head in a pretty accurate way. I've been thinking about this for a while and I truly believe that I'm one of the best 'day 2' villagers active on POG. Not that I'm bad on Day 1 either :P But in my last few villa games I've been able to piece the game together very well and create game solving lynch orders on day 2. I think I have a number of other strengths as a villager too, but they're also things I've been able to do well as a wolf generally.

My biggest strength as a wolf? I'm not sure. Probably sounding villagery. I've never been lynched as a wolf when I haven't been peeked (I was lynched once actually but I claimed seer under no pressure to get the real seer to counterclaim).

5. Zayana, here are two recent villa and wolf games

Villa #1 (died n1 so I figured it would be better to provide two): http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59...hread-1218457/

Villa #2 http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59...hread-1210659/

Wolf #1 (most recent wolf game, it's a mishmash though): http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59...hread-1217215/

Wolf #2 (not very recent, but it is a PoR game, which may help you? *shrug*): http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59...hread-1174292/

If you could answer my question (or just link some games of your own, or both) I'd appreciate it

6. What I meant about 'what VMF doesn't post' - I think I have a fairly good idea of how he likes to approach werewolf (particularly as a focused/motivated villager), and there are certain things he'll notice and comment on that I can normally follow. So when there are some things I'd expect him to talk about a little bit but doesn't, it's more likely that he's a wolf who doesn't notice those things because he already has perfect information. I'll qualify this though by saying I'm not as capable as I once thought I was at really getting into VMF's head and discerning his role, and also that (like I mentioned) the slow/PoR nature of things here is a mitigating factor.

7. I forget if there was anything else I made a mental note to mention here, so I'll just say hiya Luckay/Timon

Your opening here is so vastly different than any prior game... so that wasn't helpful, but thanks.

Originally Posted by captain binkles

(1)

Sup br0s

I personally intend on not following the rules, attempting to angleshoot myself, cheat, sabotage my team and I'll definitely be a huge dbag.

Hope that's okay with everyone.

To the gimmicks/people I haven't played with before

Holla! I look forward to playing with all of you Do you reckon you could do me a favour and talk to me a little bit about what your strengths and weaknesses are as both a villager and a wolf, how you'd wolfhunt yourself and what your general approach to werewolf is? Also any links to past games would be more than appreciated (no promise I read them though, I'm pretty lazy :P ). If you're a gimmick you don't have to out yourself, but some extra general info on that sort of thing would be great.

Thanks

To everyone else

sup

strengths and weaknesses are hard to nail down for me... and I'm almost hesitant to share my weaknesses because it can only help the wolves. But a few in the game already know them... Weakness: I tend to think people who seem like they give a crap about the game and the outcome are villa and will work with them. Telc took total advantage of it in one game. It was F5 and we were the only 2 even trying to do play... the only problem is he was a wolf. So I got mislynched because another villa voted me because I was so sure he had to be one of the wolves. He didn't really think I was a wolf, but felt he had to vote me because he assumed I'd vote him. We were losing that game no matter what though, because I did NOT think Telc was a wolf at all. Telc do you remember which game it was? (I ditched all my ww notes and info about a month and a half ago or so when I assumed I wasn't playing anymore)

My strength is probably that I'm like never mislynched (previous example aside)... as a villager I try so flippin' hard to solve games that it's ridiculous and I'll fight to the very end. Best example of that is probably the game Duck fakepeeked me wolf, which I have to figure out which one it was. Mets was in that game too. Also I'm usually not too bad at drawing NK's before the seer, not always, but pretty often. If I'm alive endgame I really should realize I'm terribly wrong about something, like Telc being villa!

I wolfhunt by clearing as many people as possible based on tone, interactions, game solving attempts, and POE the wolves. It's easier to figure out the villagery thought processes.

My approach to ww is generally pick somebody that I have a hope of reading, try to figure out if they are villa, then once I "figure them out" bounce ideas off of them. Generally I do this with Mets because I can read him pretty well after a couple of days (so far I haven't been wrong, but he is also known to NK me when he knows I have him figured out if he's a wolf)... until then I just lump him in the villa camp. I've gotten flack for this in the past, but it's not likely to change.

Ok TL bumped a TON of games so none of mine are in order anymore in my subscribed list, so trying to figure out what my more recent games were is annoying... I'll give links tonight after I go through them all. I'll try to give at least one PoR, and a wolf and villa vanilla.

[El_Timon]

Originally Posted by tappokone

You're focusing on meta a lot. Your only game-specific post was the one in which you voted for Ufo. Even there you didn't really find him wolfy; you just wanted a reaction.

I'm pondering whether I should vote for you, but maybe it's just a style thing. Say something reassuring.

You are correct, but focusing on meta early on the game is not that uncommon. there's really been very little content so far to make reads specific to this game. The most salient point has been Hardcore's peek, and I commented on that.

In previous games I have been under fire early on d1 for not having many reads. My complain with that has been that most of d1 reads are based on meta and I didn't have much of that before. However, as I keep playing in more games I have gotten to know a few players and I'm trying to use that knowledge to form some early reads.

Some other people can confirm, but I think my game gets better after d1 when I get a chance to analyze posts based on role reveals. For example, in the Bond Girls game, Binkles and I formed a good 1-2 team on d2 and basically solved the game then. Of course, the wolves won because no one reads dead players, but at least we can claim that the game was solved.

Anyway, I don't know if that was reassuring enough for you, but that's my mindset right now. I hope I have time between today and tomorrow to make so MQ reads, but as of right now, meta information is what I'm going with.

[Aksdal]

testing my votecounter

Votes as of post 94
Night is more than 24 hours away

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Votes	Lynch	Voters
3	hardcoreUFO	El_Timon (5), metsandfinsfan (4), ShipItUp (7)
1	captain binkles	VarianceMinefield (5)
1	HappyFeet	UAW710 (4)
1	metsandfinsfan	HappyFeet (3)
1	VarianceMinefield	tappokone (12)
1	unvote	hardcoreUFO (21)
9	not voting	captain binkles (6), Daisoujou (0), DonkDonkDonkDonk (0), Hurp Durpington (7), LuckayLuck (1), Metsy Claus (0), Olhado (7), Telcontrar (0), Zayana (3)

[captain binkles]

Thanks Zayana, I think that's a pretty good 'weakness' to have as a villager. I mean, forcing the wolves to be villagery is obviously going to bode well, especially if you're capable of reconsidering your reads. I get the feeling that I'm going to enjoy playing with you

Fwiw I think Mets has been mildly wolfy, I actually wasn't a huge fan of his 'maybe I'll get mislynched instead' post - Olhando mentioned that as a wolf he would be more likely to pander to the masses. But I actually think that that post I mentioned does exactly that.

Aside from that Tappo is a villager, Hurp and SIU have been villagery, I'm a huge sucker for Olhado saying that he can't justify a vote and then following it up with a vote. Timon/Hardcore are on the wolfy side of villagery if that makes any sense at all :P

By the way Timon is right that he's a strong day 2+ player, at least in my experience he has been. That Bond Girls game is an excellent example, as Timon went from a mislynch the wolves needed to win -> to a strong/cleared player nightkill over the course of one day.

Didn't really drop any knowledge bombs but it's somehow almost 5am and I'm tired, leave me alone :P

donkdonkdonkdonk

If people aren't sure who to vote right now, or they're not voting anyone, vote Donk for good old uncle Binkleface. It can only lead to happiness and funtimes.

And on that note, adieu thread, I'll see you guys when I wake up

[metsandfinsfan]

5

and so it will begin

the "mets was kind of wolfy" posts will come pooring in

i didn't think it would be from binkles tho

wolves; please don't kill me. I'd like to see if i can survive not getting mislynched several days without getting metsy. it's a worthy scientific experiment

i figured it would be from a gimmick.

slow game is uber slow

happy voting me and not popping back is wolfy

[Hurp Durpington]

mets i really hate your woe is me act i think your'e way more likely to do so at this point as a woof

i've never had a problem playing with you i think you add a fun dimension to the game

but playing the woe is me game right from the getgo is weak and wooooofy

[metsandfinsfan]

6

i am playing no woe is me act

i was told not to harrass gimmicks, not to be mean, not to be metsy

if you think im a wolf please vote me

i have no problem with that

if you want to mislynch a villager, i am one

but i'd hope you respect my game enough to let me try to play for a few days without having to be metsy and see what happens

[Olhado]

Originally Posted by El_Timon

If my experience with Binkles is correct, I don't think him being under pressure would affect his behavior. I've only seen his villa game when we played together (which is in all my games, I think), but he doesn't strike to me like the kind of player who would flinch when having a few votes one him.

If it's as you say and binkles reacts no differently under pressure than he does when not, he's different from every other ww players that I know. I didn't mean he'd freeze up and immediately out himself; just that applying pressure is often a good way to determine someone's role, even when done gradually.

Originally Posted by Zayana

This I find interesting, it's like ShipItUp knows roles. Wolf lean.

Voting zayana for calling a villager wolfy in a very level 1 way. And for not saying much. And for discussing like 3 ppl. And for leaving really fast. Also for only having villas as wolf leans. And the few things she does quote are pretty pointless. Especially when they're contradictory (I like the way this guy thinks" vs "I hate hate hate hate hate this post". Not that there's anything wrong with contradictory impressions as one goes through the thread, but since they were 2 of the 6 things she posted about, it just further diminishes the amount of content she posted).

---

I do see that she came back and made a longpost, and it almost made me delete some of the above, but it pretty much just discusses her own meta. Not very contributory.

I'm trying to decide if you believe this is a workable plan or whether this is just you going through the motions. If you don't mind me asking, do you have any previous experience playing with Binkles?

Yes.

Voting early in the day is preferable to not voting. Always good to make wagons. I'd previously said I didn't feel strongly about him, so I felt an explanation was necessary in order to make the vote.

Olhado said in a response to me that he posts a lot as a wolf (quantity > quality) - which I assume means that he also posts a lot as a villager to replicate. But then in a later post said that he seriously doubted he'd get to fifty posts. You'll have to explain that one to me champ.

If you post a lot as a villager, and then don't as a wolf, you get lynched. However, if you post a lot as a wolf, and not as much as a villager, you don't. I haven't found it necessary to make stupid spam posts and smileys when I'm a villager to stop myself from getting lynched; however, when I'm a wolf, that's how I usually inflate my post count, so people don't look too closely at the content. Additionally, I don't have a lot of time to post these days, which is why I'm doing a PoR game, so I it'd be less in either role at the moment.

<Taking a moment to consider the absuridity of discussing meta in this much depth during a gimmick game :P. Then again, I don't particularly care if someone discovers who I am, so I'm happy to divulge. There are definitely a few ppl in here who knew me well enough to figure it out :P. Heh, gimmick player promoting gimmick exposure, amirite?>

And lastly I like binkles' recent posting, he's on my village list. I could be being suckered in by a villagery wolf, but in light of my new decision to not simply write off people as unreadable because I'm scared of them, I'm going with my gut and calling him a villager for now.

[vixticator]

TOTP?

Votes as of post 100
Night is more than 24 hours away

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Votes	Lynch	Voters
3	hardcoreUFO	El_Timon (5), metsandfinsfan (6), ShipItUp (7)
1	captain binkles	VarianceMinefield (5)
1	Donkdonkdonkdonk	captain binkles (7)
1	HappyFeet	UAW710 (4)
1	metsandfinsfan	HappyFeet (3)
1	VarianceMinefield	tappokone (12)
1	Zayana	Olhado (8)
1	unvote	hardcoreUFO (21)
7	not voting	Daisoujou (0), Donkdonkdonkdonk (0), Hurp Durpington (8), LuckayLuck (1), Metsy Claus (0), Telcontar (0), Zayana (3)

[Hurp Durpington]

Originally Posted by vixticator

TOTP?

Votes as of post 100
Night is more than 24 hours away

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disappointing totp

[Olhado]

So I was thinking about that thing that one person said, and this post:

Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield

hmm i dont think this is the path hardcore takes if he rands wolf

medium villager lean

Is really bad. Cuz think about it. What other path could hardcore possibly take upon being randed wolf for the first time?

Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield

captain binkles

Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield

is it time for us to see your wolf game?

Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield

i am sooo bad at figuring out gimmicks from posting

zayana hii

And I quoted the rest of his posts just for completeness. They're fluff. I realize there wasn't much to post since he was first to the thread, but I felt that these were particularly fluffy. And the 1 content thing he did do was wolfy, and the other, voting binkles, I've now decided is bad.

VarianceMinefield

Zayana is now my second choice of lynch.

Looks like the aao theory was wrong about this game, AM I RIGHT?!?

[metsandfinsfan]

oh

and if im seer, i aint peeking gimmicks, and ill use my peeks to tell me how to read gimmicks

[Zayana]

Originally Posted by Olhado

Voting zayana for calling a villager wolfy in a very level 1 way. And for not saying much. And for discussing like 3 ppl. And for leaving really fast. Also for only having villas as wolf leans. And the few things she does quote are pretty pointless. Especially when they're contradictory (I like the way this guy thinks" vs "I hate hate hate hate hate this post". Not that there's anything wrong with contradictory impressions as one goes through the thread, but since they were 2 of the 6 things she posted about, it just further diminishes the amount of content she posted).
---
I do see that she came back and made a longpost, and it almost made me delete some of the above, but it pretty much just discusses her own meta. Not very contributory.

How is ShipItUp a villager based on what little he has posted? Also, when I gave him a wolf lean in that post, it was his only post in the thread, everything that came between it and mine were xposted with mine. Not that I'm ready to drop my wolf lean, based on something he said later about needing to save posts... if you need to save them, why enter the thread without addressing the multi-quote at the same time? Anyway, that's neither here nor there, no one has posted a whole lot and to be perfectly honest d1 is a crap shoot for me. I do the best I can to pick out a wolf, but usually it's based on meta... which I have like zero with almost everyone playing. Mets, Telc, UAW and now D4 ( D4) I've played bunches with anyone else was maybe 1 game (VMF, LL, might be missing someone), the rest nothing. So D1 I'll concentrate mainly on trying to figure them out by EOD and figure out who I can trust on the rest of you guys if only for a day until I can start looking at wagons, the NK, and something a little more concrete.

I liked his thought process about Binkles post... it sort of mirrored my own thoughts of trying too hard, felt forced and preconceived. I HATE that everyone is talking about the seer so much, is this the way new POGgers play generally? because it's HORRIBLE! And that anyone would claim to be screwing the village in terms of seer cover just so they can get deep in the game just irritates me. I was sharing my thoughts about the posts as I was running across them. Maybe I should have had a but out in front of my I hate this post thing, but whatever I didn't. They were still my thoughts and still are my thoughts.
I still think ShipItUp had a weird entry reaction to Hardcore though. I don't know, maybe ShipItUp is like that and it means nothing.

Also, leaving really fast? I have a job, I will try to post during the day when I can, but I will be doing a lot of catching up, posting a few thoughts about what I read, then leaving... which is why I joined a SLOW game, because my my main participation and reading time will be after work and after my baby girl is in bed. I don't get lunch because I work part timeish now while my daughter is little, so I'll do lots of "wolfy" pop-in's when I have downtime at work... but they're not wolfy, they're just what I can do right now.

It only discussed my meta because I was answering Binkles where he asked for my meta and ran out of time to do much else (because I talk too much!), which is why I said I'd share links to old games tonight. I did find the Archer game, which is the one Telc totally owned me as a villager in that I had mentioned earlier.

Hurp: Mets being all "woe is me" with just one vote on him is normal. It's frustrating when he gets hung up about 1 vote, but it's role neutral maybe even a tish more villagery than wolfy for him.

Binkles: I won't vote D4 when he hasn't even said a word. For a while he was like the easiest D1 push for a mislynch person in POG and I tried to break that cycle then. Which of course makes me want to know why you would want to vote him? Is no one else wolfy to you? or even is everyone else uber villagery to you?