Seventh hand vs unknown, probably reg, first six hands both sides folded pre (either on button or after a single raise), so almost no reads at all, except Villain is obv no maniac (and sees that neither am I). It was a deep-stacked table, Villain sat with 100bb, and I bought in for the full 200bb, which is the reason for me having twice his stack.

After the hand, Villain asked me in the chat what my hand was (remarking that "no hand makes sense"), and first refused to believe 8-7, then berated me (in a friendly, advice-giving way) that it was a "10 out of 10" in terms of horrible play. He fired flop and turn really quickly, and my thinking was that I can probably make him fold top-pair type hands perhaps up to Q-J, and for the rest of the match make him more cautios about 2-barrelling with one-pair hands, which should benefit me especially when I am OOP; I can't call off 3 streets with 2nd pair, so I turned it into a bluff with a c/r. Had I not hit that lucky 8 on the river, I would most likely have been done with the hand.

Villain says I should never try to bluff someone off top pair at these stakes. Is it really such a terrible maneuver ? What line, pretty much readless, do you regard standard - call flop, fold turn ?

This is okay if balanced correctly with value bets like 22, 44, 84s, Q2s, Q8 and whatever else stuff you end up on the river with. You did not choose the best hand for bluffing the turn with though. You should lean towards calling with 8x combos and consider bluffing hands like 2x, J-9s and FDs.

Thank you. After calling the turn, assuming a blank such as 5 comes on the river and Villain fires again - easy fold then (still given that this is the first hand with any preflop action) ?

Yep, easy fold on that river. It's a hand you can call against a barrel monkey though

turn ze bad

"ze" = check raise ??

Vs readless I would fold this turn. From villain perspective 4c is pretty horrible card for second barrel with bluff hands.

Yes, I also thought that I did not like to call the turn - either fold, or raise (i.e. bluff). The thinking really is that I tend to show aggression early in a match to show that, while I am kind of tight preflop, I don't like to get run over, which I hope leads to more cautios play from opponent, and gives me easier decisions in later hands of the match, at least for a while. (I thought that there may be enough weak queens, or even TT or 99 type of hands that would fire 2 barrels, but will fold.)

Does this kind of thinking - show aggression early in a match to take control - make sense, or does it not need to be a concern at all ?

turn x/r is the worst option, its either call or fold, villain wont fold a Q, board is too dry so you can rep only Q8 and sets most of the time, and if you going to bluff turn+river it's going to be too expensive with a hand that has only 5 outs to improve, and sometimes your outs won't even be good enough

Whats your plan on river if its a ex. 3d?

Then I'm done with the hand. Intention was to fold out weak one-pair hands on turn (which is +EV if Villain folds more than 53% of the time). After calling the turn, Villain should be very unlikely to fold river, even though that's what happened here.

???

??????

can you please be more specific?

This is 50nl. villains dont think that high level.

PM incoming.

I too would like to know ... we are all here to learn and improve

horrible play

What are you talking about, villain has trips, are you suggesting checking the river? I think that would be classed as a horrible play.

Villain flopped 2 pair, on the river still has 2 pair. I rivered trips, but question is mainly about how to play the turn vs unknown opponent, and if the turn bluff could possibly have any merit to establish a somewhat "aggressive image" early on.

I check river to give up if river does not help me (i.e. almost always).

.. hero has trips, not villain and should be mega obvious i was commenting on turn line given thread title

Even though your play worked out here....I don't see any combos in his range that he bets flop and then b/Fs the turn with. Doubt he bets TT twice read less, also don't see him barrelling bluffs twice, in which case we don't need to raise.

We almost always get him to fold worse and can't see him folding better that he takes this line with.

Surprised he folded river, in that case I guess this is ok against the type of villain but I'm assuming if he had QJ+ he would have called since his kicker is now a 5.