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Old 08-22-2013, 12:47 PM   #26
Syous
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

I like the idea of forced # of hands or u forfeit blinds but this system is too easy to game.

Party has a problem w/a team of fins who take up all the tables. If you sit, a team of diff players will sit all ur tables at the same time. You see the problem right?

I like the idea of having 5-8 tables per limit, 1 table per person displayed, king of the hill. I don't think this system is exploitable and there's no point in being a bully since you can only get 1 table per limit and no more.

I say displayed because you shoudl let us open up multiple tables so we can get multi-table hu matches going.
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:09 PM   #27
kpr16
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Hi guys,

There are no HU tables at mid/high stakes in LHE, but Stars effectively made the tables king of the hill a few months back. This put an end to high stakes heads up games for weak regular, lottery players, and recreational players who do not specifically seek them out and know to ask for it when someone joins. The system is MUCH better than previously, where lottery players would sit and fill up a lot of tables in the lobby and never post a single hand, or worse... they would abuse the non-random button system to get free hands when a game started.

Heads-up tables are obviously different, but I am strongly in favor of Star's efforts to remove lottery players from sitting, and in my opinion option 1 is best.

I do not like the implementation problems with option number 2, where people can sit, stall, etc. and move tables from view. I do think this this should be a concern.

I think option 1 will generate more hands, and I don't think the bad scenario is really all that bad. Again, coming from someone who is the only person currently sitting in the LHE lobby at high stakes, I actually would not mind other regulars being able to sit - but I'd like to see guys playing hands once in a while. I do not think PokerStars, or the poker community in general, benefits from having guys who make a business out of sitting and playing only absolute layups.
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:17 PM   #28
TooCuriousso1
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

I'm a fan of option 2. Although any change is welcome at this point tbh. Stars is not the site I play the most hands on, which is surprising given how massive the player pool is. Also I've been sitting some PLO HU and basically bumhunting the **** out of it. Please...stop me from being able to do this.


Also the last thread like this got a bit out of control. Not gonna happen this time so please at least everyone be respectful of each other and no personal attacks etc.
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:18 PM   #29
j.a.o.p.
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

what about this idea...
give hu players a rating a-f,unrated...
make those ratings visible at hu-tbls.....

keep it as it is right now....
with the exception that players waiting at a table are only allowed to deny players with higher ratings....
if they deny a player with no higher rating,they get an "opentbls-ban" for 72 hours....
stopping before either 50 hds are played,or a full BI is lost,will be seen as denying....
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:20 PM   #30
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Option 1 is by far superior. Let the best players battle it out. Poker is a competition after all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLuckFactor View Post
Have you thought about the implications of having the very top players getting the tables 24/7?

1) Recreational players go broke quicker and therefore do not have an enjoyable experience with Pokerstars.

2) More of the current regulars will not be able to play so will leave Pokerstars for other sites.
1) I doubt going broke slightly less quick has a material impact on their playing experience. Things like tables not insta breaking when they sit out or take a break will have far larger impact on playing experience than a slight increase or decrease in win rate IMO

2) The overwhelming vast majority of current HU regulars are not playing any volume and are paying very little rake. I would be surprised if Pokerstars was terribly upset about losing their business. As stated in the OP:

Quote:
We are particularly unconcerned about negative impact to “Lottery” type players.
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:21 PM   #31
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

/facepalm

both of these options are bad and arguably worse than the current system. both of these options will lead to only the better regs sitting and crushing the fish, who will have less fun and deposit less long-term, thus ruining it for everyone

the best option is a soft koth where you tweak the number of tables (one table a person, add table button, and the arrange a match feature can stay too) so that all of the good regs and some of the weak regs can sit. this means fish and weaker regs don't have to battle the absolute top everytime they want to play, but it cleans up the lobby and largely stops predatory practices. i have no idea why you fail to consider this possiblity



mandatory 2 hands would be good although grimming isn't that big a deal with no mandatory auto-post (like on ipoker) and they can only do it to you once
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:35 PM   #32
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

I prefer option #2. I think there is more room for angling under option #1. I think players that don't want to fight for tables will try to play as 'annoyingly' as possible. They will do things like time down for every single decision, limp every button, shortstack, etc. Whatever they can do to discourage strong players from joining them. You may still see some of this behavior under option #2, and it would help if you were able to give warnings and temp bans for that type of behavior.

Do you have an ETA for when these changes will be implemented? Under option #2, how many tables will be shown per stake? Will it be a static number or will it change depending on stakes? How will CAP tables and regular tables be treated?

I also would like to see the minimum buy in increased, with short tables brought back (or completely eliminated) under option #2. If this system was implemented with just the 40-100bb tables I would expect most of the play at the top tables to end up being shortstacked.
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:39 PM   #33
cumicon
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by kabyz View Post
the best option is a soft koth where you tweak the number of tables (one table a person, add table button, and the arrange a match feature can stay too) so that all of the good regs and some of the weak regs can sit. this means fish and weaker regs don't have to battle the absolute top everytime they want to play, but it cleans up the lobby and largely stops predatory practices. i have no idea why you fail to consider this possiblity
Isn't this exactly what they are going for with option #2?
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:44 PM   #34
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

First option is definitely better. It'd make most action and it'd start to be a competition instead sitting for one hand or slowplaying to get visable table.

Moreover I'm almost sure that hidden tables will get much more action than their visable countertypes. Most of good action on higher stakes is from non-HU players who will very quickly perceive where is better action. It will not solve the problem and probably Lottery type players will get even more action.
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:50 PM   #35
lautie
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

I would say option 1 is by far superior. Anyone can try to become KOTH on their own stakes instead of the lower playing regs filling up the lobby with no intention to play anyone. If these guys dont want to battle to become KOTH in their own stake than for stars there would be 0 loss, since others will play the players they were willing to play for 100%.
For the better regs, it seems kind of justice since they didnt become better regs by luck, but by trial and error. They did generate action which is good for stars, so protecting them a bit by making it a fair enviroment seems logical to me.
Now I would realy like to have a similar discussion about all the seating scripts...
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:58 PM   #36
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Could we get an approximate of the number of hands that would need to be played in scenario 1 ? Also what would be the amount of big blind for the penalty?
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:02 PM   #37
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

I always assumed game selection is a skill and should be part of the game. (not talking about the player who only play very bad players..) anyway I would like to make another suggestion for option #3.

My idea to "cleanup" the lobby is very simple.

Just allow X number of tables per stake. Lets say 15 tables per stake.

This means there would be 15 tables on a single stake in the lobby.

Now as we all know those 15 tables cant be all the players waiting.. Simple solution. The 15 players on the tables are shown random to everyone meaning its possible to get action for everyone + the lobby is clean
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:02 PM   #38
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

I think option 1 is better
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:05 PM   #39
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Im not sure tho if stars is aiming to induce reg battles by forcing them to play eachother.. partypoker tried it and it didnt workout
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:06 PM   #40
fees
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Options two please.

If recreational players really want to go to the trouble of avoiding playing the players in the visible tables they can. If they are apathetic to their opponent at least the good players can compete for that player pool and encourage battling.
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:16 PM   #41
rbracco
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

lol at nobody thanking stars for being this awesome. This report is amazing. You can tell they not only sat down and took the time to come up with novel solutions from a wide range of possible options, but they considered the effects on each part of the player pool and how it could be potentially angleshot. I don't think even one person here acknowledged this, everyone just started right in with the self-interested bitching.

I am a fan of both systems (lottery player transitioning into weak regular ).
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:17 PM   #42
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Also anybody saying party KotH didn't work...go find any reg sitting more than 1 table from 10AM-10PM EST, then PTR them, click the opponents tab and tell me they don't battle for their seats.
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:34 PM   #43
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

first option sounds better
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:36 PM   #44
freewilly12
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Why don't you simply auction the tables. Like 10 tables to highstakes and more to small stakes... maybe weekly auction.
Lobby gets tidy, you make more money and bumhuters and strong regs can figure out how valuable a table is.
This doesn't prevent reg battles on 6-max tables so everyone is happy.
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:45 PM   #45
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

As long as the recreational players will be made aware (by a warning-message) before buyin in, I strongly prefer option 1.
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:48 PM   #46
kabyz
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by cumicon View Post
Isn't this exactly what they are going for with option #2?
depends on the number of tables

also, i think all that visible/non visible tables is bull****. no fish will go to options
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:50 PM   #47
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

I like option 1 the best.

Pokerstars Nick:

1) In regards to people cheating the system and harassment from groups of players............... couldn't stars still police the tables and issues warnings to players involved in this. It would only take a few strong warnings to put a quick end to this.

2) Although Stars and FT operate independently, can I safely assume that FT will be following this same business plan?


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Old 08-22-2013, 03:04 PM   #48
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

I like option 1.

I think the "potential problem scenario" is much more likely to become serious issue under option 2.

all of the "additional improvements" sound awesome.
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:13 PM   #49
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

Number 1 is definitely more of a drastic change. I think I like it better.
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:23 PM   #50
TooCuriousso1
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Re: PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested

wait so under option 1 these locked # of hand type tables replace the current tables? or are in addition to?

i was initially thinking it was in addition to.
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