Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop?

07-04-2014 , 06:26 AM
Sorry for this nooby question but I am interested in some other opinions

So Villain is 3betting 15% and cbetting flops in 3bp about 77%. When he checked the flop he folded to my bet so far. He could balance his checks with draws and the nuts (which is quite unlikely since I hold a T). So I should be betting to get money from his draws and don't give him any freecards.

But I take the chance from him away to make something stupid on the turn or river if I bet my hand here. I will check behind some draws or weaker hands and it could be nice to have some nutty T in my range. Whereas a hand like eg JT could stack some KQ on a J turn sometimes. So should I rather bet T6s-KT and checkbehind AT? Or bet all, check all?

So what would be your advise against this particular villain? In general?

Thanks in advance

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (2 max) - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 113.12 BB
BB: 143.26 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T A

Hero raises to 2.5 BB, BB raises to 9 BB, Hero calls 6.5 BB

Flop: (18 BB, 2 players) 9 T T
BB checks, Hero ???
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-04-2014 , 06:43 AM
bet. i'd x/back if it had the Ad instead of Ah.

if villain is super spewy its probably a x/back regardless but if he isn't as likely to do something super stupid on turn/river then bet it.
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-04-2014 , 12:21 PM
this board is really good, dont get too fancy with strong hands
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-05-2014 , 08:46 AM
too good not to bet?
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-05-2014 , 10:35 AM
You need a pretty rock solid read not to bet, is what he is saying. It's not enough that he x/folded 100% on flops in 3bet pots over a sample of 5, or whatever.
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-06-2014 , 06:50 PM
So without a read we are betting 100% of our Tx here?
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-06-2014 , 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoccd10I
this board is really good, dont get too fancy with strong hands
can't go wrong with this advice.

Quote:
So without a read we are betting 100% of our Tx here?
why wouldn't you?
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-07-2014 , 01:19 AM
ok thx. thought it could be some kind of advantage when we have some Tx in our range.
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-07-2014 , 03:51 AM
You can check back T9 if you like but that's somewhat rare.
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-08-2014 , 01:28 AM
If your read is strong and supported by a decent sample that he will c/f flop if you fire, and that he will lead turn when we check a good amount, then checking back is conceivable. Otherwise I think 1/3 potting flop would be interesting.
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-09-2014 , 11:17 AM
Think it's quite hard to balance 1/3 potsize bets isn't it?
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-09-2014 , 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristalle
Think it's quite hard to balance 1/3 potsize bets isn't it?
I think that would be an odd sizing to use. That being said, it's not that hard to balance if you use normal turn/river sizings since you would just use the same range since you still need the same hands for your turn/river ranges. Perhaps if he folds too much you would have a much larger c bet range on the flop that goes very narrow on the turn, but it just depends who you're playing.
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-09-2014 , 02:13 PM
The question is whether there are hands I want to bet only 1/3 with and is he calling hands to a 1/3 bet he isn't calling when I am betting at least 1/2?

I mean when we start betting 1/3 here we can widen our betting range right? Do I really want to bet let's say a pair of seven or some ace highs?
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-09-2014 , 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristalle
The question is whether there are hands I want to bet only 1/3 with and is he calling hands to a 1/3 bet he isn't calling when I am betting at least 1/2?

I mean when we start betting 1/3 here we can widen our betting range right? Do I really want to bet let's say a pair of seven or some ace highs?
I am going to reply generally more from the perspective of the preflop aggressor. The thing with this hand is that the BB is repping something marginal because he 3 bet and checked which is probably why someone said bet 1/3 pot. The significance of this will become clear in a second.

Well you can bet 1/3 pot with 77 and A high if you want to because you can widen your value range theoretically in that our opponent needs to defend wider so even 77 should be ahead of his range. You will have to bluff less too on the flop because you can't have as many flop bluffs because our opponent has to continue so often but you still need all your turn/river bluffs (assuming you will use normal turn/river sizings). Again this would be compensated by the wider value range we talked about.

This practically will become difficult if our opponent insists on raising us and we don't want to continue often enough with the wider value range we did 1/3 pot with. You would have to look carefully at what you're value betting and decide how often you need to continue vs a raise. That being said, as the preflop aggressor checks here, unless he is capable of checking strong hands, he can't ever raise you after checking so you could bet everything. The other issue though is once the BB narrows his range into bluff catchers, we probably want to extract a bit more value than 1/3 pot even with a hand like 77 which might get one street for say half pot.
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-11-2014 , 01:08 AM
On how many turn cards do we still have the third nuts? I.e on how many turns would our range still be capped should we exclude strong made hands from our checkback range? There are zoom players who check fold too much here and it so happens one particularly prolific one has stats very similar to the op but double check your sample size because a compelling read in this spot requires a totally crazy number of hands given stats in op.

Plus I would like to hear further arguments for 1/3 pot sizing at this stack depth. Our range figures to be quite strong vs villains bluffcatching + traps range (or worse if we give credence to OP reads). Seems like a standard .75P bet will do the job nicely, larger may be even better.
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-11-2014 , 06:40 AM
Very interesting thoughts guys, thank you very much
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-11-2014 , 04:56 PM
I don't have a really well formulated reason for 1/3 potting, other than it is a pretty cheap bluff, and keeps the PSR low so I can float more vs. c/r with draws and whatnot.

I dont thinking checking back necessarily caps our range, at least not anymore than our opponents range is capped when he checks. I think when we check back we look a lot like a weak SD hand. This sets up a nice spot for villain to lead turn and river with bluffs or hands he is valuecutting himself with.
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-14-2014 , 11:25 AM
I would probably bet. There's too much stuff he'll call with in the flop. I think you're thinking is fine, but I'd rather wait for a kind of dryish board where I have the deck crushed to do this kind of thing.

Maybe thats wrong though idk.
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-16-2014 , 11:01 PM
hero bets 12ish, 2nd reply itt gives the reason. 1/3rd pot bet is ridiculous with any hand.
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-17-2014 , 08:25 AM
Well at least Sauce is doing it quite a lot
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-17-2014 , 08:48 AM
find me a hh where sauce is betting 1/3 in a similar spot
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-17-2014 , 09:57 AM
I was referring to "1/3rd pot bet is ridiculous with any hand." and thought you talked about it in general sry
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote
07-17-2014 , 05:59 PM
A reason why 1/3 pot is terrible would be helpful, i have found this to be pretty successful.
NL50 Zoom: Flopped Trips on wet board in 3b pot, bet the flop? Quote

      
m