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NL100z 4 bet gets called bad turn NL100z 4 bet gets called bad turn

06-15-2015 , 01:55 PM
Hero has A6

i have a c/r history with villian

100 BB effective

Villian raises 2 BB
Hero calls 1 BB
Flop[Q83]
Hero checks
Villian bets 2 BB
Hero raises 6 BB
Villian raises 15 BB
Hero clicks back to 24 BB
Villian calls
Turn[Q83][T]

jam here or give up?
NL100z 4 bet gets called bad turn Quote
06-15-2015 , 02:34 PM
my plan was obviously induce something with the 4-bet and at the same time look uberstrong.

i wouldnt have thought about giving up this hand on any turn but a J,T,9
NL100z 4 bet gets called bad turn Quote
06-16-2015 , 08:43 AM
Spoiler:
anyway, i shove, hopeing to fold out JT or something and get called by KQ. In backsight i dont think my shove is that bad, i got 20% equity against his calling range and the SPR is 1,5.

Still thinking if c/f is better, as he rarly will be bluffing here, JT and most spadedraws will propably check back, as would his KQ hand.
NL100z 4 bet gets called bad turn Quote
06-17-2015 , 04:02 AM
The real question here is about the flop play.... by both of you if I'm honest.

Bar villians btn open and flop cbet, it seems every other decision made at every branch was a bad one
NL100z 4 bet gets called bad turn Quote
06-17-2015 , 04:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yukyuk
The real question here is about the flop play.... by both of you if I'm honest.

Bar villians btn open and flop cbet, it seems every other decision made at every branch was a bad one
no.

NFD c/r is standard
KQ 3-bet is thin but given history its ok
i could call that 3-bet and i can 4-bet. both plays are fine. question is the size, honestly im not absolutly sure about that.

the question is about the turn. if i had a question about the flop, i wouldnt post the turn.
NL100z 4 bet gets called bad turn Quote
06-17-2015 , 09:58 AM
Disclaimer, I am nooba, so all fwiw.

Seems like you can't expect him to give up weak sdv on the flop vs your click back 4b, and he can still have hands like 8x that have a lot of equity on this turn but will fold vs barrel off. We are OOP so I think our default line should be to gii with what we can for the most part. With much of our flop semibluff range, this is a great card, so I don't see why we should slow down.
NL100z 4 bet gets called bad turn Quote
06-17-2015 , 05:55 PM
Quote:
NFD c/r is standard
no it's not - you have waay to strong of a hand to turn it into a bluff. It was a standard play like 3 years ago, and that seems to be a comon denominator to all your posts. Watch some contemporary videos, as you don't seem to understand how people should construct their ranges.
NL100z 4 bet gets called bad turn Quote
06-17-2015 , 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tutejszy
no it's not - you have waay to strong of a hand to turn it into a bluff. It was a standard play like 3 years ago, and that seems to be a comon denominator to all your posts. Watch some contemporary videos, as you don't seem to understand how people should construct their ranges.
Hi Jesus, marry me.
NL100z 4 bet gets called bad turn Quote
06-18-2015 , 04:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tutejszy
no it's not - you have waay to strong of a hand to turn it into a bluff. It was a standard play like 3 years ago, and that seems to be a comon denominator to all your posts. Watch some contemporary videos, as you don't seem to understand how people should construct their ranges.
thx for the tip that im out of date, i might watch a Video.

i wouldnt say i turn the NFD in a bluff, when 90% of the time i want to c/r it.

c/r the NFD is a mix of value and bluff, i would call it a valuebluff. i valuetown smaller draws and bluff against anything that isnt toppair.

there are times you shouldnt raise the NFD otf but that is rare and it just happens when your opponent is unlikely to have a draw and is very polarized.

i have very good results in that strat, so im unlikely to Change it, but im intrested in your arguments.
NL100z 4 bet gets called bad turn Quote
06-18-2015 , 06:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongTimeNoSee
i wouldnt say i turn the NFD in a bluff, when 90% of the time i want to c/r it.
no you are just turning it into a bluff 90% of the time
NL100z 4 bet gets called bad turn Quote
06-21-2015 , 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongTimeNoSee
c/r the NFD is a mix of value and bluff, i would call it a valuebluff. i valuetown smaller draws and bluff against anything that isnt toppair.

i have very good results in that strat, so im unlikely to Change it, but im intrested in your arguments.
There is no such thing as a value bluff, the term you are looking for is "bad".

Whether or not you think you have good results with this strat, I can assure you, you can have better results.

in future... try not to think of how these hands play in isolation but rather how all your hands play and how choosing lines like this might negatively affect other parts of your range.
NL100z 4 bet gets called bad turn Quote
06-23-2015 , 07:45 AM
I dont like the flop click back, and would not jam either, that T could help his range.
NL100z 4 bet gets called bad turn Quote
06-30-2015 , 10:33 PM
c/r flop to me is strange, especially if you have been doing it frequently you are not going to get much respect out of it. However if you are going to c/r it seems better imo to get all the money in on the flop.

you put yourself in a terrible situation because you inflated the size of the pot but now have an extremely tough decision on any non-spade turn.
NL100z 4 bet gets called bad turn Quote
07-03-2015 , 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderMe
I dont like the flop click back, and would not jam either, that T could help his range.
I don't think T helps villains range but it doesn't help heros either unless you think this guy is repopping the flop with a gut shot, TT or QT. Unless hes really bad none of these hands are in his range. Its top pair, 2 pair, sets once the hero is 3b on the flop. Hero didn't think about his range and just says I have a nut flush draw I am not folding and my ace high is probably not good I am shoving any turn. Thats like first level poker thinking only thinking about your hand. The T is a blank. Since villains range is so strong he should of just called the 3b. Now I do like the raise on the flop we do have a strong hand here but now villain is showing hes nutted at this point so its ok to call and re evaluate the turn. Sometimes you got to slow down. You can't run over people when they are showing strength like this.
NL100z 4 bet gets called bad turn Quote

      
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