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NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise.

02-27-2014 , 06:18 AM
Villain seemed to be quite agro. Is there value in check-calling turn and brick rivers just to pick up missed flushdraws and he might even be betting weaker than 10x on turn and maybe turn them into a bluff aswell on river?

As villain are you more likely to bet Kx on the turn or your 8x? Why?

PokerStars - $1 NL (2 max) - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: $121.50 (VPIP: 84.62, PFR: 76.92, 3Bet Preflop: 40.00, Hands: 17)
Hero (BB): $103.32

SB posts SB $0.50, Hero posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $1.50) Hero has J T

SB raises to $3.00, Hero calls $2.00

Flop: ($6.00, 2 players) 8 K 3
Hero checks, SB bets $4.00, Hero raises to $12.00, SB calls $8.00

Turn: ($30.00, 2 players) T
Hero checks, SB bets $21.00
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
02-27-2014 , 06:54 AM
c/f flop, I mean now you're in this situation I guess calling turn is best
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
02-27-2014 , 07:01 AM
Cant just be a puss against a guy who looks to be quite agro and certainly cbets this flop with air almost always.
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
02-27-2014 , 07:12 AM
Im aware of that, but there is much better textures and failing that even hands on this texture where you can elect to start adjusting by turning more hands into bluffs, Your adjustment is geared more towards tilt that he's being aggressive rather than something thought out.
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
02-27-2014 , 08:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrretrog
Im aware of that, but there is much better textures and failing that even hands on this texture where you can elect to start adjusting by turning more hands into bluffs, Your adjustment is geared more towards tilt that he's being aggressive rather than something thought out.
+1
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
02-27-2014 , 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyha Karu
Villain seemed to be quite agro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyha Karu
Hands: 17
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
02-27-2014 , 09:19 AM
Yes. 17 hands in. Has 3 bet me twice. Plays almost every hand and comes raising in with obv cbeting.
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
02-27-2014 , 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrretrog
Im aware of that, but there is much better textures and failing that even hands on this texture where you can elect to start adjusting by turning more hands into bluffs, Your adjustment is geared more towards tilt that he's being aggressive rather than something thought out.
On a board where you get cbets almost every time, its perfect to check-raise bluff. Looks like a very weak game plan if your only bluff in this spot is a semi-bluff with spades.
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
02-27-2014 , 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyha Karu
Yes. 17 hands in. Has 3 bet me twice. Plays almost every hand and comes raising in with obv cbeting.
First off, to clarify: "quite aggro" is pointless as a descriptor if you aren't using it distinguish this guy from a typical reg. That is, the sentence "Villain seemed to be quite aggro" doesn't tell us anything if is meant to be denotatively identical to "Villain is a typical aggro reg." So it should be interpreted as "Villain is more aggro than a typical aggro reg," and I think you meant it in that sense.

The point is your evidence isn't sufficient to warrant radical changes to your strategy (I'm assuming that x/r and then x/c x/c on blanks isn't something you'd consider doing against a typical aggro reg). Every "standard aggro reg" will put up plenty of 17-hand stretches with these stats (and with 100% c-betting). 17 hands is basically nothing.
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
02-27-2014 , 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrretrog
c/f flop, I mean now you're in this situation I guess calling turn is best
I think it a perfectly fine spot to bluff. Quit being a nit cause you don't have back door equity. Can't only bluff with some sort of equity every single time. The truth is in heads up nl most of the time we don't hit anything. So this is a great spot to bluff. The turn I would bet again and if he raises or calls I am shutting down on the river.
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
02-27-2014 , 10:07 AM
^^ You can only bluff a certain amount, you can't just bluff every time you think its a good spot or you will be doing it way too much..So it makes sense to do it with some Bd equity.
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
02-27-2014 , 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyha Karu
On a board where you get cbets almost every time, its perfect to check-raise bluff. Looks like a very weak game plan if your only bluff in this spot is a semi-bluff with spades.
What makes this board a good one to check raise bluff?

What does your gameplan look like in this particular spot?
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
02-27-2014 , 11:58 AM
Don't check/raise, now check/call.
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
02-27-2014 , 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimatecurse
I think it a perfectly fine spot to bluff. Quit being a nit cause you don't have back door equity. Can't only bluff with some sort of equity every single time. The truth is in heads up nl most of the time we don't hit anything. So this is a great spot to bluff. The turn I would bet again and if he raises or calls I am shutting down on the river.
what you think is really bad
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
02-27-2014 , 10:09 PM
hu is alive!
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
02-28-2014 , 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrretrog
Im aware of that, but there is much better textures and failing that even hands on this texture where you can elect to start adjusting by turning more hands into bluffs, Your adjustment is geared more towards tilt that he's being aggressive rather than something thought out.
+1. This is one of the few boards I don't checkraise. If I did checkraise I would prefer my weakest hands to have strong backdoor draws like T9hh.
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
02-28-2014 , 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimatecurse
I think it a perfectly fine spot to bluff. Quit being a nit cause you don't have back door equity. Can't only bluff with some sort of equity every single time. The truth is in heads up nl most of the time we don't hit anything. So this is a great spot to bluff. The turn I would bet again and if he raises or calls I am shutting down on the river.
You'll end up with a 40% checkraise stat and start facing repops all over the place from regs, so back to square one.
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
02-28-2014 , 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyha Karu
Cant just be a puss against a guy who looks to be quite agro and certainly cbets this flop with air almost always.
lol at this meaning ANYTHING. yes show them your genitals and you'll be a****ing a winnar the the pokerz
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
03-01-2014 , 06:54 AM
Pretty obvious these bluffs are working more than enough to profit for me if you all think people wont bluff these sort of flops.

But i have no idea what game you guys are playing cause these very dry but with a lil something out there(like the flushdraw)
flops are quite popular to be check-raise bluffed.

Last edited by Pyha Karu; 03-01-2014 at 07:00 AM.
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
03-01-2014 , 07:54 AM
sorry pyha, i was just super drunk yday i think nobody is rly arguing that you should or shouldn't x/r this flop frequently, it's just a matter of picking good hands to do so, and JT no spade doesn't rly qualify
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
03-01-2014 , 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyha Karu
Pretty obvious these bluffs are working more than enough to profit for me if you all think people wont bluff these sort of flops.
But i have no idea what game you guys are playing cause these very dry but with a lil something out there(like the flushdraw)
flops are quite popular to be check-raise bluffed.
I Don't think that is a correct way to think about the situation, If you are playing someone who is playing anywhere near close to optimally, then although you'll profit here by including extra bluffs, your range getting to turns and rivers will be much weaker/bluff heavy vrs ours that you'll lose more as a result in your overall "gameplan".

**Just thinking out loud here and could be very wrong with this statement, someone feel free to come in and call me a ********
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote
03-01-2014 , 11:27 AM
bluffing with ATC may be profitable exploitatively but there are plenty of much better hands to c/r bluff with that play better than JT (no spade) and if you include all of those combos and all of the combos between those and JT, you will end up bluffing at such a high frequency that villain will notice/adjust and actually begin to play closer to optimal such that you won't be able to exploit this spot in the future.
NL100- Hit 2nd pair after bluff check-raise. Quote

      
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