villian led some rando hands befor, played pretty wired. im not totaly focussed and havent any useful reads. only that he is 3-betting too much and 4-betting too much. i have 5-bet im 3 times befor and he folded to all of it. he folded to most of my 4-bets aswell

i decide to 4-bet a suited connector as we are deep and i think it is a good hand to 4-bet. when he leads im not sure what to make of it. i think he has enough bluffs to shove in on the turn am i right?

so he had an unlikely hand he shouldnt be in the pot with in the first place, but if he would be a good player what range plays like this?

I don't know if it's just me and my low volume of play lately but it seems like decent regs are starting to construct and balance donk bet ranges. Probably not a sustainable trend because it's so rarely going to be your equilibrium play BUT it's giving me fits.
As a purely meta game adjustment it may be ok to value donk monsters? I know I feel an urge to raise my air every single time I'm donked into.

The other thing to consider is how his flatting range hits that flop compared to your range.

And why not just call the 3 bet preflop? Seems like a very good hand to use for flat vs 3 bet at this depth, no?

i thought 4-betting is better just to punish him for 3-betting a hand like 55, which is a really bad play unless you are megadeep which we arent.

for the actual hand i have trouble putting him on a hand, maybe he has often a pair and a straightdraw?

but as he donks turn i put him on a turned jack at the minimum or airball.

im getting roughly 1:1 on my shove, i have equity and a real hand is unlikely(??) but i have no idea what people could donk twice here.

i dont put him on an overpair, as we had a 5-betting dynamic going on and he could be easily 5-bet his KK+ maybe even QQ.

A+ title

Looks wp. Would go larger pre.

The play isn't necessarily really bad or anything, but I've got to agree with purrretrog because from the title it looks like you're just clicking buttons here (of course that is probably why you're posting the hand ). Also agree with REI that the 4bet should definitely be larger pre.

If you did indeed see Villain lead some "rando hands" like broadway overcards or A7s / A5s / A3s etc that decided to call the 4-bet, then wp probably, especially as you still have all the overpairs that he probably doesn't.

guess he is pretty polarized in this spot though. randohands was more in smaller pots.

like it was mentioned earlier i was simply clicking buttons in this spot as i had no clue how many nuthands villian had and hoped he had no more hands to call with than 68s/JJ/77(?)/57s(?)/45s(?)/maybe Jx and i could make him fold his KQ/A2 type of hands.

i doubt a good player would lead turn with less than Jx for value.

now while i am typing this it seems like my play is somehow meh and i really dont like it anymore. might be resultsorientated though

2nd this

Would you have played AA-JJ and sets (or the unlikely flopped straight) the same way ? If the answer is "yes" (in most cases anyway, especially when Villain seems to have slightly maniacal tendencies), then you need bluffs.

As far as bluffs go here, 9-8 is probably one of the best there is. If you do raise overpairs and sets on the flop already, then bluffing is probably a pretty bad idea.

i think raising an overpair on this flop is pretty borderline. ok its a 4-bet pot but still we are 200+BB deep and we are flipping against a pair+SD

in all honestly i think i just have to fold the flop, when he leads into me in a 4-bet pot he might be bluffing, but i have nothing but a 4-outer which is pretty obvious when i hit it and i have bad equity even against KQ. if i pair on the turn i am not happy at all either.

without a backdoorflushdraw my flop peel is questionable.

when he leads the turn again i put him on Jx at the very least or a bluff. does he have many bluffs in that situation? i dont know, folding seems sour, im not sure if i have the odds to peel again as my implied odds are limited with a 4-straight and some cards completing a flush.

batteling for all pots in bad situations is just not what makes you win.

whenever i dont know what the **** they have i just shove aswell!

we are the same you and me bro

If it was a good play or not depends a ton on what you do with small PP's preflop. Do you 3-bet 77, 55 and / or 44 vs this guy ? You 4-bet 98s - do you 4-bet 86s vs him as well ? If no, then you hardly need to worry about putting bluffs in your range, because you have pretty much zero strong value hands on this flop, you simply got a terrible board for your range. If answer is yes to all, you have 9 combos of sets and 4 combos of flopped straights, for which you need bluffs. Villain can't constantly 3-bet and call your 4-bets and then shut down unless he flops the nuts, as that would be a huge money-destroyer. 98s seems an obvious candidate to float this flop, and while 98 is admittedly the worst of the 4 possible combos, if you raise all sets and straights on that kind of turn, it should still make sense to make the same play as a bluff with those 98 hands that did not turn a FD (although that would be the most desirable scenario), or 98 that didn't even have that possibility.

If you do think you have all 13 combos of sets + straights in your range and raise them all on that innocent-looking turn, what else would be the bluffs you use for balance ? Only those 98s that also turned a FD, and those AKs / AQs that turned a FD ? Then you are way too value-heavy.

i wrote a very long post which dissapear.

but just think yourself about it. most runouts on this board gonna be an ugly spot. i cant see him shutting down with his bluffs once he decided to start that otf^^.

i think you arent cutting off your leg by folding the flop.

I cannot see 3 betting this hand then folding to a half pot flop donk w 2 overs and a gut shot in position.
I think we have to at least peel the flop and maybe even raise it seems ok as played to me also