Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > No Limit Hold'em > Heads Up NL

Notices

Heads Up NL Discussion of heads up NL Texas Hold'em cash games

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-16-2008, 11:08 PM   #1
adept
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 722
HUSNG vids vs xSCWx

Video 1 : http://www.mediafire.com/?d2zddv0lzzw

Video 2 : http://www.mediafire.com/?dmmdy4p20hl

Video 3 : http://www.mediafire.com/?3x1yb99yygy

A couple of notes:

Videos are .wmv format ( lower quality but MUCH less in size than avi's)
Commentary is weird ( my brother is sleeping in the next room and english isnt my first language).
Vid 1 is straigtforward, nothing very interesting.
Vid 2 is a little longer.
Vid 3 is the longest with more hands and more "play".

I def. didnt play very well though, made a bad decision in vid2 and 2 bad ones in vid 3.

I didnt get slowrolled by xSCWx, jk.

xSCWx mailed me his HH's and i will post them once if/any discussion starts here.
phatjeffrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2008, 11:54 PM   #2
asg
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 523
Re: HUSNG vids vs xSCWx

It'd be interesting to know what stakes he normally plays and what stakes you normally play.

Thanks for upping the vids!
asg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 12:04 AM   #3
Pooh-Bah
 
yaqh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: mountain view
Posts: 5,662
Re: HUSNG vids vs xSCWx

Awesome. Thanks for taking the time to do this
yaqh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 12:04 AM   #4
Pooh-Bah
 
xSCWx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Exploring the world
Posts: 5,415
Re: HUSNG vids vs xSCWx

i play mostly 110s and 220s
xSCWx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 12:47 AM   #5
Free Hugz
 
cwar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 10,186
Re: HUSNG vids vs xSCWx

In the middle of watching video 3, Ill have some comments up soon.
cwar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 06:18 AM   #6
Free Hugz
 
cwar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 10,186
Re: HUSNG vids vs xSCWx

Watched video 3:

-Early on with K2o I dont see why you didnt raise preflop.

-A7 dont bet the turn. Consider betting the flop, nice board to double barrel.

-85o no reason to limp based on how xSCWx is playing, raise or fold (raise like 90%+ of hands only fold for image). Hate the bluff raise, doesnt make much sense your not going to have a strong Jx or 9x too much here, he just not going to believe you, float would be much better. I hate the double barrel too.

-K9s is a perfect spot to 3bet preflop, postflop A33s flop is just not credible against a decent player (making the assumption this is how you view xSCWx) I strongly recommend a lead here because he is almost never raising you and a c/r is too credible. After you c/raise and get called I dont know why you'd double barrel either here either, you caught the 9 you should be using it to bluff catch floats and draw. xSCWx not sure what you had here but I dont think you should have many hands that are cold calling the c/r then folding the turn. I would definitely be 3betting my flush draws BIG (to fold other FDs) mainly because I doubt he will c/raise Ax so your basically always taking the pot. In the off chance he does c/raise A5 or something pushing or committing puts him in a hell of a spot.

-Q6o raise

-KJo you have some serious timing tells. Also its not a tough decision at all if he raises the flop, you have the nuts.

-98o I would strongly consider checking this flop for a couple reasons, one xSCWx is rarely calling with a worse hand (which also means hes c/raising this board more), against a weaker player this bet makes sense but with this draw broadwayish board your most likely going to be c/raised or called and behind. Second, the last time you checked behind xSCWx called down very light so you put yourself in a good spot in two regards. Once he c/raises I really wouldnt call without a plan (didnt seem like you had one from what you said, something like "if he checked I was going to try and take it away") A bit hard for me to comment on this one without seeing the rest of the matches but when I saw the 450 into 600 it definitely didnt feel like QJ or QT and Id expect KQ way way less (no 3bet preflop and big bet) and Kxhh wouldnt come out with that huge bet IMO (or shouldnt). Very dependent upon your read of xSCWx from the previous matches, if hes capable of c/r bluffing and double barreling this spot (I would guess he is) so I would probably push if I got myself into this spot. That said if he has a smallish c/r range and tends make bad defensive bets (say betting QJ like this) you're behind. If hes not expect to see JT for the turned OESD or some c/raised gutshot or bluff and flush draws most of the time.

-K6o you call a raise OOP, very bad idea against a capable player unless you've just decided to make a move, still like the worst possible choice in hands Id rather pick like 43o or anything suited. Fold the turn because xSCWx is NOT double barreling here.

-K6o again, raise preflop, seems unlikely hes double barreling this turn so Id fold, Id need a strong read to go to a call and just seems sooo unlikely a good player would bluff here.

-Q9s xSCWx at like 12:30 you raise 3x the blind with 25bb effective stacks or something, you definitely want to keep the pots smaller completely unnecessary especially against a decent player. Jeffrey, your better off restealing by either pushing or making some sort of committing 3bet than calling this OOP, *grunching this one* I think the call and lead out is pretty transparent (mostly because your stack is dwindling and villain has been getting the best of you) and your very likely to get taken off it. If he doesnt raise 3x the blind I might consider calling but Id much rather c/r bluff than lead with your image.

-KJo Id minraise, really nice tough fold. Pocket 99 comment confused me.

-97s Given the pace of the match Id have to try and steal OOP even with your crappy image, 90 preflop. Also if you check lead out planning on double barreling non-club non J's and T's.

-44 limp reraise IMO. Dont make that tiny bet on the flop make it your standard 75-90, dead give away, also strongly consider checking, villain is super likely to catch something marginal and put himself in a bad spot by leading the turn. Also watch your timing tells here. xSCWx I have no idea what your are flat calling preflop here but you should be pushing or folding instead.

-K7o Id check this flop back, that flop slammed his call range. xSCWx push preflop, no idea what the hell you are doing here, just terrible on like every street.

-AT vs J9 just push the J9 xSCWx.

-86o timing tell. Check the flop back. xSCWx obviously terrible on the flop, at this point Im guessing you werent paying attention at all and were screwing around.

****************************
Jeffrey - seems like you have a decent style against fish but you have to adapt a lot when your against a better player, almost two completely different games. Definitely more raising early, pretty much raise every hand you play only start limping against a good player (who is playing tightish OOP) if he is 3betting relentlessly. Id recommend you spend a lot more time analyzing the texture of the flop, you seem to make automatic decisions and you could easily take your game to the next level by slowing down on the flop.

xSCWx-guessing you werent paying attention and being goofy on purpose so w/e.

Last edited by cwar; 01-17-2008 at 06:26 AM.
cwar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 08:57 AM   #7
Pooh-Bah
 
xSCWx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Exploring the world
Posts: 5,415
Re: HUSNG vids vs xSCWx

I wrote a pretty in depth reply to the video and Cwar's comments. I'll hold off on it for a little to see if there is any more discussion before I post it though. I know my hands so I don't want to give anything away.
xSCWx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 08:57 AM   #8
Pooh-Bah
 
xSCWx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Exploring the world
Posts: 5,415
Re: HUSNG vids vs xSCWx

How did you make this video? I'm dumbfounded by how high the quality is compared to how small the download is.
xSCWx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 09:18 AM   #9
adept
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 722
Re: HUSNG vids vs xSCWx

Thanks for the reply cwar i really appreciate it, i just woke up so i need some time to go over ur comments. What u said about my game being good against fish is definitely true since im playing the 11s and 22s mostly and havent had to play/adjust against alot of good players.

xSCWx, i used camtasia studio, (custom production settings, wmv video). The same videos a little higher in quality though would be 100mbs as .avi's.

I hope alot of other people would give their opinions before either me or xSCWx reply .
phatjeffrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 03:50 PM   #10
adept
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 722
Re: HUSNG vids vs xSCWx

Quote:
-Early on with K2o I dont see why you didnt raise preflop.
I dont feel comfortable raising hands like K2o otb yet, the worst king i see myself raising would probably be K7s. In the previous 2 matches he hadnt attacked my limps so figured limping>folding.

Quote:
-A7 dont bet the turn. Consider betting the flop, nice board to double barrel.
Your right.

Quote:
-85o no reason to limp based on how xSCWx is playing, raise or fold (raise like 90%+ of hands only fold for image). Hate the bluff raise, doesnt make much sense your not going to have a strong Jx or 9x too much here, he just not going to believe you, float would be much better. I hate the double barrel too.
He's been betting into me after i limp on dry and paired boards, i figured he doesnt have a J or a 9 here, plus id probably play a J or 9 the same way.

Quote:
-K9s is a perfect spot to 3bet preflop, postflop A33s flop is just not credible against a decent player (making the assumption this is how you view xSCWx) I strongly recommend a lead here because he is almost never raising you and a c/r is too credible. After you c/raise and get called I dont know why you'd double barrel either here either, you caught the 9 you should be using it to bluff catch floats and draw. xSCWx not sure what you had here but I dont think you should have many hands that are cold calling the c/r then folding the turn. I would definitely be 3betting my flush draws BIG (to fold other FDs) mainly because I doubt he will c/raise Ax so your basically always taking the pot. In the off chance he does c/raise A5 or something pushing or committing puts him in a hell of a spot.
Your right again, He's cbet almost every time he's raised preflop, so the c/r was just to get some chips out of him, thought he'd fold.

When he called and i hit my 9, i picked up extra outs.

In your opinion i should be checking back here ? Hoping he'd bet and id shove over ? I havent taken a look at HH's but my play folds out PP from 66-KK. (meaning this is probably the sort of hand that he can call the flop raise and fold to the turn bet)

Quote:
-Q6o raise
Again, not yet comfortable.

Quote:
-KJo you have some serious timing tells. Also its not a tough decision at all if he raises the flop, you have the nuts.
Def. true about timing tells, at the 11-22's u rarely ever play the same person, betting quickly confuses bad players and they feel ur bluffing, i shouldve paid more attention to that against xSCWx.

Quote:
-K6o you call a raise OOP, very bad idea against a capable player unless you've just decided to make a move, still like the worst possible choice in hands Id rather pick like 43o or anything suited. Fold the turn because xSCWx is NOT double barreling here
Id usually fold, not sure why i called there, probably because i was a little bored/card dead in this match.

Quote:
98o hand
In the previous 2 (very shorter 6 and 9 min videos), he c/r with TPJK(QJ) on a board with a flushdraw meaning thats probably the only hand that i get to see his cards after he c/r me. So as far as history is concerned im more inclined to put him on a decent hand.

Your read might be closer to what he probably had, (havent taken a look yet), IF other ppl dont comment/watch ill post his version after a couple of hours if he doesnt mind.

Quote:
-Q9s xSCWx at like 12:30 you raise 3x the blind with 25bb effective stacks or something, you definitely want to keep the pots smaller completely unnecessary especially against a decent player. Jeffrey, your better off restealing by either pushing or making some sort of committing 3bet than calling this OOP, *grunching this one* I think the call and lead out is pretty transparent (mostly because your stack is dwindling and villain has been getting the best of you) and your very likely to get taken off it. If he doesnt raise 3x the blind I might consider calling but Id much rather c/r bluff than lead with your image.
I agree, if i had a J i probably wont play it this way.My line is transparent.

Quote:
-KJo Id minraise, really nice tough fold. Pocket 99 comment confused me.
Id minraise myself sometimes there, I think my fold was "correct", the pocket 99's comment was just a feeling.(but obviously my "feelings" were WAY off in this match so i wouldnt count on them)

Quote:
-44 limp reraise IMO. Dont make that tiny bet on the flop make it your standard 75-90, dead give away, also strongly consider checking, villain is super likely to catch something marginal and put himself in a bad spot by leading the turn. Also watch your timing tells here. xSCWx I have no idea what your are flat calling preflop here but you should be pushing or folding instead.
He hasnt been raising my limps enough of the time for me to count on reraising, the flop bet was hideous,i shouldve checked or bet the usual size.

Quote:
-K7o Id check this flop back, that flop slammed his call range. xSCWx push preflop, no idea what the hell you are doing here, just terrible on like every street.
checking is probably better than a bet there. I was shocked when i saw his hand.

Quote:
-86o timing tell. Check the flop back. xSCWx obviously terrible on the flop, at this point Im guessing you werent paying attention at all and were screwing around.
I just gave up here, it was 4am, the 3rd match, i havent been playing well etc..

Thanks again for taking the time to watch and comment on the videos.

If u watch the 1st vid theres probably only 2 hands that i might have questions on. ( A9s in the beginning and the 78 hand).

Vid 2 also ended a la vid 3 ( bad play by me ).
phatjeffrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 04:38 PM   #11
Free Hugz
 
cwar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 10,186
Re: HUSNG vids vs xSCWx

Im a little curious about your comment about not being comfortable enough to raise trashy hands from the button, not sure how that works out but just DO IT. Against someone like xSCWx who you can count on not playing tons of hands OOP your way better off opening any of those hands, limping gives away soo much info. Poker is about thinking and analyzing try and just doing things your comfortable with ESPECIALLY heads up. Sure you might lose a bit at first but as soon as it clicks you take off. You have to take risks to learn and I can tell you its definitely worth it.

To your comment about the 85o hand, yes I agree xSCWx is probably weak here but like I said a float is much better because he expects you to call most of your legitimate hands here so your not representing a hand well which is the essence of a good bluff, calling the flop and turn and betting like 2/3 pot on the river wouldnt be a bad line either if you expect him to double barrel often.

K9s I dont think the stack sizes were quite deep enough where Id want to c/rai on the turn, just c/c and chk re-eval river (gonna be a tough decision if he bets but your playing a capable player so expect them).

44 hand, I want to play this hand in a limped pot and its great for limp reraise stealing, you have to understand this is a very trashy hand postflop given the stack situations its worth so much less when your not deep stacked and xSCWx has been playing too many hands too aggressively for you to expect to get to showdown in a raised pot with just a pair here.

About the 98o hand, the really key factors here are whether he c/raises as a bluff and does he accidentally or on purpose turn medium strong hands into value bluffs (for example betting 450 into 600 on this turn when an overcard rolls off with QT would be severely limiting its value IMO). I assumed you thought he c/raised a wide enough range to call 2nd pair so if his range is polarized when he bets the turn (draws and bluffs as compared to 2 pair plus).
cwar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 04:39 PM   #12
Free Hugz
 
cwar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 10,186
Re: HUSNG vids vs xSCWx

Quote:
Originally Posted by xSCWx View Post
I wrote a pretty in depth reply to the video and Cwar's comments. I'll hold off on it for a little to see if there is any more discussion before I post it though. I know my hands so I don't want to give anything away.
Might as well post it seems like we are the only ones in this thread.
cwar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 04:44 PM   #13
Pooh-Bah
 
xSCWx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Exploring the world
Posts: 5,415
Re: HUSNG vids vs xSCWx

i laughed hard at the part where i start lagging and youre wondering if im eating pizza, i dunno what that was

I'm trying to follow along with the video, my HH, and Cwar's reply so this may be a bit clustered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwar View Post
-85o no reason to limp based on how xSCWx is playing, raise or fold (raise like 90%+ of hands only fold for image). Hate the bluff raise, doesnt make much sense your not going to have a strong Jx or 9x too much here, he just not going to believe you, float would be much better. I hate the double barrel too.
That's pretty much dead on with my thinking - I floated the flop with T7o. I didn't really have anything at the turn to continue with so I dropped, but I'd probably look this up with a low PP or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwar View Post
-K9s is a perfect spot to 3bet preflop, postflop A33s flop is just not credible against a decent player (making the assumption this is how you view xSCWx) I strongly recommend a lead here because he is almost never raising you and a c/r is too credible. After you c/raise and get called I dont know why you'd double barrel either here either, you caught the 9 you should be using it to bluff catch floats and draw. xSCWx not sure what you had here but I dont think you should have many hands that are cold calling the c/r then folding the turn. I would definitely be 3betting my flush draws BIG (to fold other FDs) mainly because I doubt he will c/raise Ax so your basically always taking the pot. In the off chance he does c/raise A5 or something pushing or committing puts him in a hell of a spot.
I figured that either the ace or the 3 is just gonna flat call here so I called with TT. I didn't notice the flush draw at the time so when I saw the 330 on the turn I figured I just made a bad read.

Phatjeffrey - A little after this hand you raised 78o and got check/raised on a 45K flop. You made a comment that you probably should have checked behind which I disagree with. This flop misses the vast majority of a BB's calling range which makes it perfect to cbet. A smart villain will know that it misses the vast majority if your raising range as well so it is likely you will be reraised here, but you will definitely take it down with your cbet often enough to be profitable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwar View Post
-Q6o raise
I'd just fold this unless I'm against a really passive opponent. Either option is definitely better than limping it though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwar View Post
-KJo you have some serious timing tells. Also its not a tough decision at all if he raises the flop, you have the nuts.
Yeah, you definitely don't want to be folding here. I'd come over the top with any jack, 9 (maybe), OESD, and a few other hands. You definitely don't want to fold to a raise with a hand that strong on the flop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwar View Post
-Q9s xSCWx at like 12:30 you raise 3x the blind with 25bb effective stacks or something, you definitely want to keep the pots smaller completely unnecessary especially against a decent player. Jeffrey, your better off restealing by either pushing or making some sort of committing 3bet than calling this OOP, *grunching this one* I think the call and lead out is pretty transparent (mostly because your stack is dwindling and villain has been getting the best of you) and your very likely to get taken off it. If he doesnt raise 3x the blind I might consider calling but Id much rather c/r bluff than lead with your image.
I'd definitely keep my bet sizing down if I felt that my villain would show more aggression over my raises. I know that I'd be shoving a pretty wide range over a 3x bet here myself so that is definitely some solid advice. We didn't seem to have too much aggression preflop (I think my image was tighter than normal here as well) so I wasn't too worried about the 3xBB. As far as the flop goes - I agree completely. I know that while we aren't very deep so you (Phatjeffrey) are going to want to give me a chance to bluff at the pot before you take it away. I figured the most likely hands to be betting here are either air or something weak that doesn't want to see a raise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwar View Post
-KJo Id minraise, really nice tough fold. Pocket 99 comment confused me.
The minraise definitely would have put me in a more awkward position here (I probably would have made the same move, but it would have been more difficult). The pocket 9's comment was pretty random but I'm guessing its because the hand is very strong preflop but difficult to play postflop. That is pretty accurate for most of my shoving range here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwar View Post
-44 limp reraise IMO. Dont make that tiny bet on the flop make it your standard 75-90, dead give away, also strongly consider checking, villain is super likely to catch something marginal and put himself in a bad spot by leading the turn. Also watch your timing tells here. xSCWx I have no idea what your are flat calling preflop here but you should be pushing or folding instead.
I blame my pizza for this one. The small bet definitely set of the monster alarm for me here because I know you (Phatjeffrey) wouldn't do it unless you strongly wanted a call. If you are going to do this you should go at least like ~1/2 PSB so it looks more like a small cbet than a trap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwar View Post
-K7o Id check this flop back, that flop slammed his call range. xSCWx push preflop, no idea what the hell you are doing here, just terrible on like every street.
I'd check behind on this flop as well. It hit a lottttt of hands and there isn't much you (Phatjeffrey) are drawing to.

Should I have shoved this river? I was pretty tempted but I figured that his line looked either really weak or really strong, neither of which I want to be smashing the pot with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwar View Post
-AT vs J9 just push the J9 xSCWx.
I do this dedicating raise habitually because it gets the point across that we are all in but some of the weaker villains won't realize that it is shove/fold at this point and will still limp hands.

For example, if I'm shoving, they tend to retaliate by shoving back. If I raise, they have more of a tendency to continue playing a normal game.

It probably doesn't apply in this case so I agree that a shove is better in this spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwar View Post
-86o timing tell. Check the flop back. xSCWx obviously terrible on the flop, at this point Im guessing you werent paying attention at all and were screwing around.
I'd never do this normally so I was hoping he would pick up on it and make a move (I'd have called anything on the flop). I made sure to leave enough room for a shove over the top of my bet on the turn - I didn't really even expect to see a pair here though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwar View Post
xSCWx-guessing you werent paying attention and being goofy on purpose so w/e.
I was kind of distracted because I was eating but I tried to keep it pretty serious. My play was a lot sloppier than usual (I didn't mean to check behind with that K5 2-pair lol), but I didn't do anything out of the norm on purpose.
xSCWx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 04:49 PM   #14
S.A.G.E. Master
 
daveT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Why didn't I use Clojure instead?
Posts: 18,858
Re: HUSNG vids vs xSCWx

You know that I play more aggressive than you, so....

King 2: SCW is not a terrible player that isn't going to make plays at you. I would have liked to see a raise on the flop.

I think you should raise more often preflop.

I don't like the min-raise bluff.

K9s. I would rather see c/c since he is laying you odds. Then donk the turn.

The Q6, I like calling down, but also raise pf. I think if you know he is "taking stabs" you would do well to let him multi-barrel.

89o is going to be shove/fold on the flop. You know he is going to bet large on the turn.

I wonder what you are thinking when you make a call on many of these flops.

I was thinking, "please don't call with KJ." nice fold.

K7o: I knew you were going to bet, just take the free showdown.


I will look through the other replies later, I imagine there are some gems in here.
daveT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 05:24 PM   #15
Free Hugz
 
cwar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 10,186
Re: HUSNG vids vs xSCWx

Very nice comments xSCWx, I actually kind of like your K5 play now altho I still think a normal c/raise is much more appropriate for what you were trying to accomplish. As for your KJo against jeffrey this is 100% a shove preflop. The 3x raise thing I agree that its good in theory to raise as much as you can against someone who is passive OOP BUT you were also dominating him postflop and the stack sizes are so small you definitely want to give yourself enough room to use your edge after the flop, I would have been minraising from 35bbs effective on down.

And jeffrey, for your overall poker mentality I want to elaborate a little more. Your "Im not comfortable with that yet" comment is a pretty dangerous way to think assuming you take poker seriously and want to move up (Im assuming you do and if you dont why not? With the skills you have you could easily make much more money). Basically I feel your giving yourself an excuse to stay in your comfort zone, you want to avoid risks and this seems like the best way. BUT let me ask you this, what is the bigger risk playing 22s all your life or shooting for the $5ks? What are you really risking by limiting your thinking and saying Im not this person I cant be aggressive? Im not saying its not good to have a good feel for your comfort zone (its an essential skill) but your giving yourself an excuse not to raise Q6o or whatever. Take that risk and all the psychological and emotional hardships you might experience if you lose for a bit at first its way less risky than not trying at all.

I used to be the NITTIEST poker player alive and now, well, lets just say its been a long time since Ive been called a nit. Can you imagine if CTS or aba just decided they werent going to move up past 100nl? I mean the real risk is not realizing your potential not losing a couple hundo trying out some new stuff.
cwar is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive