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Heads Up NL Discussion of heads up NL Texas Hold'em cash games

View Poll Results: What is the order of skill level?
HU cash > 6max/fullring cash > MTT 161 78.16%
MTT > HU cash > 6max/fullring cash 6 2.91%
HU cash > MTT > 6max/fullring cash 11 5.34%
6max/fullring cash > HU cash > MTT 18 8.74%
MTT > 6max/fullring cash > HU cash 8 3.88%
6max/fullring cash > MTT > HU cash 2 0.97%
Voters: 206. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-30-2012, 03:16 PM   #121
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Re: HU the most skilful form? (Poll)

when martinblizzarding in roulette is it better to go red/black or go for a more advanced dragon shape with the number 17 as its heart. I believe I saw someone advocating this once on this forum? It seems to me that red/black it is harder to make mistakes but I'm guessing that forming a dragon shape with your chips may be the most +ev line, although it is likely to put you in tougher spots. For example if you completely miss 3 times in a row do you deviate from your dragon shape into an elephant or fully commit to the dragon and refuse to change no matter what?
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Old 01-30-2012, 04:10 PM   #122
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Re: HU the most skilful form? (Poll)

^My best friend makes huuuge money in roulette. His strategy is actually pretty simple. He owns the place. Nevertheless he has a lucky shirt. He wears it from time to time.
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Old 01-30-2012, 09:54 PM   #123
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Re: HU the most skilful form? (Poll)

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Originally Posted by chessterfish View Post
when martinblizzarding in roulette is it better to go red/black or go for a more advanced dragon shape with the number 17 as its heart. I believe I saw someone advocating this once on this forum? It seems to me that red/black it is harder to make mistakes but I'm guessing that forming a dragon shape with your chips may be the most +ev line, although it is likely to put you in tougher spots. For example if you completely miss 3 times in a row do you deviate from your dragon shape into an elephant or fully commit to the dragon and refuse to change no matter what?
math is actually really close whether you should dragon into elephant after 3 misses, but since its the year of the dragon according to the chinese zodiac, it's probably at least neutral EV to stick with dragon this year.
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Old 01-31-2012, 05:20 AM   #124
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Re: HU the most skilful form? (Poll)

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can someone explain to me what levelling is?
hahaha, cool level, bro.
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Old 01-31-2012, 10:02 AM   #125
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Re: HU the most skilful form? (Poll)

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Originally Posted by chessterfish View Post
I'm sorry but mtt players are clearly better. Hellmuth says himself he is the best player in the world and who are you to disagree? Jamie Gold arguably one of the most successful mtt players in poker history offers coaching for $1k/hr I believe, whereas durrrr, ivey, antonius etc aren't good enough to even consider offering it.
So how come when you throw hellmuth into a full ring table with these headsup pros he gets destroyed? and when I say destroyed I mean it.
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Old 01-31-2012, 10:16 AM   #126
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Re: HU the most skilful form? (Poll)

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So how come when you throw hellmuth into a full ring table with these headsup pros he gets destroyed? and when I say destroyed I mean it.
you are being a bit results orientated here. a true professional is able to lose session after session after session knowing that he is playing optimally. he has the patience to blind himself out if necessary, dodge bullets and have the confidence to say that he is the best.
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Old 01-31-2012, 10:44 AM   #127
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Re: HU the most skilful form? (Poll)

Lets give an example of why mtt/fullring players are better than their hu counterparts.
Early in the game and I am stuck lots of $, a heads up player would be tilted at this point
Villain will expect me to be playing more aggressively to win back my monies.
Essentially villains range for 4-betting here is very value orientated.
Likely holdings include AK KK and maybe AA

Merge Network $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 2 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $148.30
BTN/SB: $427.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BB with K K
BTN/SB raises to $2.00, Hero raises to $8.00, BTN/SB raises to $14.00, Hero calls $6

Villains small 4-bet size is indicative of a strong hand. It looks like I am trapping, but in reality I am set mining vs his aces. I think AK would 4-bet substantially bigger to encourage me to fold more as it is more vulnerable and I don't think QQ would want to get it in vs my 3-betting range.

Flop: ($28.00) A K 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets $8.00, Hero folds

I hit my set, but in reality I can be confident that he does as well. The bet sizing is a huge give away as if he is trying to set a trap. I don't think many heads up players would have the talent to make this fold, but I am confident that it is my fullring background that allowed me to do so.

Last edited by chessterfish; 01-31-2012 at 10:47 AM. Reason: hand history fail
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Old 01-31-2012, 12:01 PM   #128
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Re: HU the most skilful form? (Poll)

I like how you elect to fold here and not call flop/fold turn unimproved.

GG waiting for better spot vs him IMO.
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Old 01-31-2012, 12:58 PM   #129
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Re: HU the most skilful form? (Poll)

lol
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Old 01-31-2012, 01:06 PM   #130
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Re: HU the most skilful form? (Poll)

I could see folding if the A wasn't Ac but you have a quads draw and BD nut flush draw, not sure how you can fold getting such a sick price.
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Old 01-31-2012, 02:52 PM   #131
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Re: HU the most skilful form? (Poll)

Against most people this would be true, however my range looks pretty face up here as I had tended to slowplay my nutted hands, min bet with my bluffs and min raise to find out where I stand with my pairs. My mistake in the hand was not min betting the flop since he would just call with his aces thinking I was bluffing and we would get to see the turn for a much cheaper price. I don't believe I have any implied odds as the villain has a history of playing mtts (and sole reading) and should be putting me squarely on KK when I take this line.
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Old 01-31-2012, 03:34 PM   #132
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Re: HU the most skilful form? (Poll)

kinda sad how much time/effort your spending levelling, surely you have better things to do?
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Old 01-31-2012, 04:47 PM   #133
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Re: HU the most skilful form? (Poll)

lol wtf @ this topic, inception all up in dis hoe

or maybe some people are OUT OF THEIR MIND

on another note, I played such a sickkkkk hand vs moneymaker that the cameras missed in that tournament . I like lead the flop, bet turn, and check minraise shoved as a bluff with the rest of my chips and he folded a total float
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Old 02-01-2012, 07:13 AM   #134
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Re: HU the most skilful form? (Poll)

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Originally Posted by jungleman View Post
lol wtf @ this topic, inception all up in dis hoe

or maybe some people are OUT OF THEIR MIND

on another note, I played such a sickkkkk hand vs moneymaker that the cameras missed in that tournament . I like lead the flop, bet turn, and check minraise shoved as a bluff with the rest of my chips and he folded a total float
confirmed hacked
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Old 02-01-2012, 12:06 PM   #135
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Re: HU the most skilful form? (Poll)

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Originally Posted by jungleman View Post
lol wtf @ this topic, inception all up in dis hoe

or maybe some people are OUT OF THEIR MIND

on another note, I played such a sickkkkk hand vs moneymaker that the cameras missed in that tournament . I like lead the flop, bet turn, and check minraise shoved as a bluff with the rest of my chips and he folded a total float
Now obv you got to post the hand for a public and serious debate.
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