Only have few hands on both villains


Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN): $15.43
SB: $18.08
BB: $9.15
UTG: $17.61
MP: $7.84
CO: $14.57

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with 2 2
1 fold, MP raises to $0.30, CO calls $0.30, Hero calls $0.30, 2 folds

Flop: ($1.05) 2 Q 3 (3 players)
MP checks, CO checks, Hero bets $0.65, MP calls $0.65, CO calls $0.65

Turn: ($3.00) T (3 players)
MP checks, CO checks, Hero bets $1.80, MP calls $1.80, CO calls $1.80

River: ($8.40) 5 (3 players)
MP checks, CO checks


It seems pretty obvious they are both on a draw/weak top pair kind of hand. Am i afraid of anything outdrawing me, or do i always barrel this river for value, and if so, how much?

I just bet it for $6.5

MP's stack size suggests a fishy player, so I'd bet what he has left, 5 bucks or so.

Very easy vbet. If you really think about checking in this spot, you likely have vbetting leaks as you can vbet waaaay wider than a set here.

Wp then?

River: ($8.40) 5 (3 players)
MP checks, CO checks, Hero bets $5.10, MP folds, CO raises to $11.82 all in, Hero calls $6.72

Final Pot: $32.04
Hero mucks 2 2
CO shows J Q (a flush, Queen high)
CO wins $30.60
(Rake: $1.44)

I know i'm beaten when he shoves, but can't fold this as played, right? My question is, do you think i get enough value in this spot from AQ/KQ type hands calling river bet, to make up for the instances that i'm beat? Cause if one pair hands aren't calling this, am i not just folding out missed draws and any worse hands?

Yes. 2 ppl c/c on Q23r I think at least 1 of em has a made hand. You can always vbet vs him.

as played river is a very clear b/f, but i understand its hard to fold for so little extra.

still a fold tho, he's never bluffing and never raising worse.

Bigger on the flop and on the turn, shove river.

Flop was really dry, i actually expected two folds here. Agree turn should have been bigger. But i can't really plan for both villains to call big flop and turn bets here, can i? If one of them folds somewhere along the way, i can't shove river either and i'm in the same spot.

Fix this leak and you will triple your win rate

Hands that call a .65 bet will call a .8 bet. On the turn they will be folding 3rd pair type hands and calling with Qx, again your betsize doesn't really matter so just bet big.

It's not about setting up a river shove, it's mostly about getting max value.

Bigger everywhere. The river is an absolutely fat valuebet.

i bet more like $2.30/2.40 ott and yes im v betting river.

This is very true and something i definetly need to work on, ty.

I see your point, and agree about flop betting, however i do have one more question about the play on the turn. When i said i agree that the turn bet should be bigger, i meant that mostly to protect my hand from the heart flush draw and/or straight draw. If turn was a complete brick, don't you think a smaller bet might keep in middle pairs 66-99 or JJ, whereas a bigger bet might fold them out, resulting in less value? I'm not really sure how to think in these multiway spots, do i bet big and try to get max value from Qx, or try to string the middle pairs/draws as far along as possible?

You need to bet ridiculously small for 66-99 to stay in the pot when you 2nd barrel this turn 3ways. If you do so, you'll lose massive amount of value vs Qx

I actually think flop bet size is OK, you have to wonder why no c-bet on such a dry board so there are a lot of reasons to not go real big on the flop. Plus betting bigger will make it pretty unlikely you get called by both players.
Once you get called in both spots though your turn bet needs to be bigger. You'll still get action from QX and can get value from drws plus set up a nice easy river shove.
If you'd bet pot sized-ish on the turn the river would be a lot easier. Yeah, you'll get beat sometimes but think of what a crappy spot you put yourself in if you bet and get raised as played. I HATE bet/folding a set here but hate calling a raise when opponent ALMOST ALWAYS THINKS he has you beat. You'll end up making a very uncomfortable call or fold.

Preflop; seems fine
Flop; i think its OK
Trn: you missed a lot of value against a lot of hands and created an awkward river spot. (this is the only prob i have with your line)
Riv: As played??? honestly super tough spot. I think bet/fold, bet/call are pretty close actually. If you bet and are shoved on you have to look at the price you're being laid, It should be SUPER unlikely that opponent tries a bluff raise and fairly unlikey that he bets second best for value (two pair?? AA??) not impossible. Depending on your bet size you can prolly find fold button but you'll be hating life. Prolly bet/fld.. i think it's close though. People do wierd stuff and you just never know. Set + big odds = head ache here.

There's always pro's and cons and i think its really great that you don't just get lazy and use a standard bet sizing in all situations. Againt micro stakes players you don't have to worry too much about balance and such.
Don't think so much about "protecting your hand" but more about extracting value from ranges that include draws. One big mistake i think players tend to make is thinking "my opponent ALWAYS has a draw and i must "price it out". Your job is to try and assign some sort of range to opponent (narrowing down as the hand plays out) and make the play that gives you the best EV overall. Don't just think in terms of a couple hands but try and visualize all the hands that make sense and make the bet that, on balance, makes the most money. If you're gonna call with small pairs preflop though you just honestly HAVE to win HUGE pots a good part of the time you're lucky enough to find a set. You'll never do that if you don't pay close attention to pot geometry/SPR's and think a couple streets ahead.
Check your data base and see if you are up or down with small PP's. I bet most players lose money overall with small PP's and failing to extract maximum value whenever possible is one reason why.

Thanks for your input, you're right that turn bet should have been bigger and i wouldn't even have to be in a situation contemplating river b/f.

As for the small PP, I've only played 5k hands of 6-max, but i'm making 70bb/100 with 22-66 for now - 109 hands sample. I honestly would probably have folded 22 if CO would not have flated the raise. I also usually just fold 22-55 UTG, as i often get into tough spots when someone calls behind and i'm forced to play OOP. Is it standard practice to raise all PP in 6-max from UTG, as i really don't wanna limp in such spots?