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donk betting nl20 HU donk betting nl20 HU

02-27-2015 , 11:32 AM
I haven't been on the forums much in the last few months. I took a little break from poker. I came back to playing a couple hours a day online and am doing well. However, it seens some things have changed.
I am seeing an influx of;
Donk betting
over bets
3xbb preflop opens (well, > 2bb in any case)
open limping buttons

First question; Are these things becoming more normal or has it just been random stuff that I have seen?

2nd ?;
I have been using the overbet for a while now but I don't feel super comfortable with open limping, 3xbb opens, or donk betting. Would we recommend that I start working to construct sb limping range, donking range, and/or start to open larger than 2bb at normalish depth (say, around 100bb effective)?

Or is that stuff "still fishy"?
donk betting nl20 HU Quote
02-27-2015 , 01:45 PM
Open limping buttons is the most modern advanced strategy in HU. It is so 2015. Sorry, that you don't feel comfortable - game is tough now. And opening more than 2bb? Wat? Are you nuts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blooszy
pretty soon we'll all just play 100% preflop, both players will check every hand to the river, and then all in or fold. like men. balanced men.
We are outdated, bro! Time to mourn and give up...
donk betting nl20 HU Quote
02-27-2015 , 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PureDiesel
Open limping buttons is the most modern advanced strategy in HU. It is so 2015. Sorry, that you don't feel comfortable - game is tough now. And opening more than 2bb? Wat? Are you nuts?



We are outdated, bro! Time to mourn and give up...
Wow! Its crazy how these things change so much over a short period of time.

I hate the idea of limping my button if my opponent is minraising his. I feel like its great for me if my opponent limps a ton and I don't. That means we will play bigger pots when im at an advantage.

Im sure my intuition is incorrect, but could someone explain why?

Why do we open a limping range in HUNLH?
donk betting nl20 HU Quote
02-27-2015 , 04:15 PM
Because an opponent can 3bet us and we will have to fold or spazz out majority of the time.
donk betting nl20 HU Quote
02-28-2015 , 11:31 PM
I feel like there has been a lot written and discussed abiut 3 betting in general, but much less about properly defending against 3 bets.
I am guessing open limping buttons HU is not GTO-ish for 50+bb effective stacks but most players, myself included, dont defend well enough so limping stops us from being drastically exploited. The cost seems high to me. I think I will start by tweaking my 4 bet bluff and value ranges. I doubt there's anything else that is actually required to adjust to a frequent 3 bettor.
I bet the biggest reason good players opt for the limp range rather than ironing out flatting and 4 bet bluff/value ranges is simply that playing all the massive pots is highly volatile.

Id guess that true equilibrium play, heads up, is extremely volatile with a ton more 4 bets and preflop jams than "standard".

But what do I know?
donk betting nl20 HU Quote
03-01-2015 , 04:17 AM
If you didn't get it it, I was leveling. I thought you leveled back, but now I'm in doubt. Please, confirm that you are leveling))) I feel like being outplayed lol
donk betting nl20 HU Quote
03-01-2015 , 09:47 AM
Omg!!
I honestly wasnt.
thats funny as hell.

no I wasnt leveling, yes I was drunk
donk betting nl20 HU Quote
03-01-2015 , 10:04 AM
Okay then, I guess, I owe you a serious answer:

-limping is not optimal by default or against 99% of scenarios. At stakes that you play it's even a mistake to limp.
-minraising IP at these stakes is suboptimal, 2.5x-3xing is preferred play.
-donking is normal, it's a part of this game and you should implement it also with good reasoning behind it.
-overbetting is very powerful, if you incorporate it well into your game.

Simply, at your stakes most optimal strategy against an average (weak field) is:
a) play ABC game,
a) valuebetting relentlessly and thin,
b) not overbluffing, but not being scared to bluff in spots where it warrants.

=profit.
donk betting nl20 HU Quote
03-01-2015 , 10:30 AM
Im honestly asking, I am seeing a lot lot more open limping, donk betting, and 2.5x opens than just a few months back. I hear people talk about how much heads up play has changed
and I wondered if any of that is being done by good players?

for what its worth, I also started winning my arse off so.. maybe im just running into a fish influx??
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03-01-2015 , 11:17 AM
^^yeah, most likely.
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03-01-2015 , 12:39 PM
Thanks
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