I used to sit ftp at 100 200 500hu and got like 1 fish per month. It was dead anyway.

There might be a little action but it's still big_guwap sitting each and every table nearly 24/7.

whatever happened to trying a little? We're in the most advanced period of our time where all we have to do is move our fingers, we don't even have to go outside and make picket signs. Do you enjoy living life with a defeatist attitude?

like barewire has said, i dont believe this will be a hit with the recs, for one its probs a little complex and weird for them to understand why this is needed plus the idea there "forced" into 30 minutes of play otherwise they cant play more heads up with someone else for 1 hour wont be appealing, recs have limited time.

soon as its not a hit with the recs then its basically just going to be the same as the HS zoom pool and die out with the odd bit of action.

def better solution then no HU though i agree!

there is a total of 25 players right now playing PLO on full tilt, anyone know how many were playing PLO before Full tilt made this change?

Just reality brother Syous

recs really don't bounce around very much but hey, bump it up to 3 table moves then.


u really think 2/4-5/10 is going to turn into a HS zoom pool? seems a bit overly pessimistic.

Anyway, if you guys don't like this, suggest something, post in the FTP thread, generate some kind of discussion, anything but sit idly by and watch your career go down the drain

Just saying there's like <5-10 guys that actually want to play without incentive of bottom table or for the KOTH and a chance of a fish, saying that if its not a hit with recs it will basically end up being like the zoom pool is now.

i cant see how the general idea of what Mikey is suggesting is a bad thing, if people gen want to play?

And yea the drain is where is its going fast aswell

This solution is interesting but it isn't particularly different to what Kanu suggested a while ago. That didn't seem to gain any attention from Stars and I don't think this will either.

I think the most constructive thing we should do as a group is come to some sort of consensus on the best solution and send a consistent message to Stars/ other sites that this.. eg 'soft koth' is what the players want.

10-20 to 50-100 on Stars is probably the best playing environment for HUNL anywhere online. I think that has been a huge success so I think consistently pushing for that across the board should be our priority.

Then as a second priority we can push for changes to the HU ZOOM lobby.
-increase number of hands before switching tables
-make the player pool unknown (not anon, just number of players and screen names in the pool unknown)
are 2 things I would change

But again my main point is that we need to send a consistent message and stop going around in circles. I think we need an email template that we can all send off to stars and link it in other forums/ sub forums so that we can get as many people saying the same thing as possible and anyone who would like to see a more competitive HU environment can add their weight.

Agree with tamas. The changes to the zoom he proposed sound far better than the current system.

It's kinda ridiculous that amaya can just trial things like a doubling of the cap of rake but can't even trial a 'zoom only' HU lobby on FTP before taking the drastic measure of just removing HU tables completely.

It's all speculation as to how the ecosystem will react to the proposed changes in this thread. It could be the case in a zoom only atmosphere that when 1 fish joins the zoom, it leads to a snowball effect where more fish and regs continue to join. Unlikey, but still definitely worth a try. There's so many suggestions in these threads over the years (which are clearly better than the current system) that just go unnoticed by stars.

As tamas said, we should probably at least start by identifying a few key points that the majority of HU players agree to regarding changes.

I think the main point is that, just like most professions, the better you are at something the more you should be making. A few points arise from the underlying theme:

- bumhunters should be given far less of a chance of fish than they currently have.
- it's kinda unbelievable that the 50 - 1knl still aren't capped. It's just nearly impossible that it won't be for stars' (and the regulars who are better or work harder) profits.
- the LOBBY (not the players' fault) needs to incentivise players to become the best (winning the most money should come hand in hand with being the best) at their respective limits. Whether this be 'A-Z tables' or any other good suggestion in here, it doesn't matter. It just needs an overhaul.
- at the moment (although bottom tables do help) the lobby is actually acting as a disincentive to becoming better. Who would want to become WCG? And get action from absolutely no one?

Anyway. Personally, I like syous' idea. I also think making the entire HU lobby just zoom (with modifications to the current HU zoom) could work really well. I think the best way to go about a change is to try trial one suggestion at a specific limit. If it's successful, transform the lobby. If it isn't, change it back. Just like the ridiculous rake change earlier this year.

I don't really get the part about hiding players and entry counts for zoom. If you play it regularly you don't even need to look at the lobby to estimate the makeup of the pool you're in. It's gonna be obvious to anyone if after 100 hands they're playing in a 100% reg lineup.

It would be pretty easy for any reg to come up with a formula with a high confidence level that only involves playing a very few hands to estimate the fish:reg ratio so it just wouldn't really accomplish anything.

at nl50 and nl100, either zoom only or no cap, otherwise it's just a gift to stars with current rake

+1

Discussion also needs to have a focus on the best way to get stars attention. As has been demonstrated over the past few years, nothing we have tried thus far has made a difference.

+1000

I don't see why everything has to be so complicated...

Stars soft koth works fine, both for NL and especially PLO. It got rid of the absolute bumhunters while still leaving enough space for people who would like a challenge vs some of the lesser gods and work their way up the ranks. Just get the same introduced at 1KNL> and we're set.

I would also like to see a max # of stakes (3 max) to opensit to prevent the absolute best to move down and dominate the entire lobby, but I have to be honest that that's purely based on self interest.

#1 priority imo is to get rid of the endless number of accounts waiting for that 1 little fish per month.

This all is extremely easy to implement for Stars (and FTP) and suits most players best IMO

This.
We can talk as much as we want, but it doesn't look like stars is open for any change.
How many threads did we have over the last years ?
The last one (2 years ago) was kind of promising, but then stars suddenly cut any comminication and we never heard back.

agree: we need to send a consistent message regarding changes that would benefit both the site and players for HU

I think the idea of trying a diff idea could work at just high stakes per se (smaller pool 5/10+) but I do think it's kind of cool that since FTP revamped their entire lobby, it gives you some some more radical options to play with (like what I suggested)

agree, sites hate this and any suggestion we make has to deal with this. I believe a system that incentivizes regs to play is the way to go. Should even half of these bumhunter accounts start to battle and generate rake, it's a win for the sites and for us to be able to keep playing HU

so you want to just complain and bring everyone else down with you instead of trying to do something about your career?

We get it, there is a small chance FTP listens to us, but I would rather try to do something productive about this situation than sit back, cry, and do nothing but troll.

Having the same soft KOTH as 2k+ at lower stakes would be ideal, with the same system on ft, only difference being more tables at lower stakes. The suggested system is a bit too complicated for my liking, yet I admire the imagination and enthusiasm of syous to get **** done.

If this had been a success on stars at 2k+ then I can't see why they wouldn't be open to negotiations.

To bring some smiles to what has been an overall very doom and gloom discussion I say we elect a single member of the hu community as a representative to communicate between ourselves and stars or whoever. Somewhat of a hunl presidential election.

This way we have one clear cut dialogue with the powers at be and not just a bunch of random regs mailing stars saying the same thing.

If nothing else, it will be a good laugh!

Ok I vote for Lefort or cumicon, so they can argue for 3 HU tables max on each stake and each format, lets see how people like batteling to be KOTH

afaik they haven't posted in this forum, was thinking more along the lines of syous or krislo since they seem to be the most enthusiastic/active towards about making a change.

also it would be a vote therefore everyone could vote for whoever they felt best represented the hu communities best interests.

however cheers for the sarcastic unproductive reply.

.