Can this GTO bot be exploited? - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Online No-Limit Hold’em Cash

Can this GTO bot be exploited?

Post Reply Subscribe

...

06-23-2017 , 10:03 AM

robert_utk

Not From the UK

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,822

Ok GTO bot sits down to heads up NLHE with the minimum buy in.

Bot proceeds to shove all in with a range that is profit versus any two cards. Bot sits out whenever bot possesses more than minimum buy in. Bot returns later to repeat with minimum buy in.

What is the math here for the human to exploit this?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote

06-24-2017 , 07:42 AM

Tutejszy

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,633

the answer is in the thread title

Quote

06-24-2017 , 04:56 PM

robert_utk

Not From the UK

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,822

Apologies, I should have put this in poker theory section. My point would be to use this as a startingpoint for some GTO analysis.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote

06-24-2017 , 08:43 PM

Tutejszy

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,633

My point stands. If every single one of bot's hands can't be exploited, then so can't any sum of them. By definition, nothing that is "gto" cannot be exploited.

Quote

06-25-2017 , 12:11 AM

fishfood69er

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,702

well no , then you call with TT + probably wider if its shoving profit vs any two cards. so thats not gto then . it probably cant be profitable shove folding because of the rake anyways.

Last edited by fishfood69er; 06-25-2017 at 12:21 AM.

Quote

06-25-2017 , 12:15 AM

fishfood69er

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,702

think about how hard it is to understand the prisoners dilemma and that example was givin to us. thats not even a complex situation and its probably not even feasible for 99 percent of poker players to figure out on their own. i think poker playes are arrogant thats why you see people pretending to understand gto when really its incredibly ignorant to think you can solve it without some crazy math background and an army of super computers. even dougs not gto hes just extremely balanced.

Quote

06-25-2017 , 02:44 AM

robert_utk

Not From the UK

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,822

GTO does not care about rake. Human must defend the exact range the bot is shoving. For one hand. It is just for theory.

Further, the humans would have to crossbook their money and call more narrowly in hopes of exhausting whatever was bankrolling the computer.

Lastly, poker players are not prisoners, they can collude with each other. The human weakness is to collude to much and exploit themselves.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote

06-25-2017 , 06:30 AM

fishfood69er

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,702

1.i actually dont know how rake affects gto its almost like a third opponent in a way. what i said is you cant shove fold profitably HU.

2.wut?

3. wut?

Quote

06-25-2017 , 01:33 PM

robert_utk

Not From the UK

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,822

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishfood69er

1.i actually dont know how rake affects gto its almost like a third opponent in a way. what i said is you cant shove fold profitably HU.

2.wut?

3. wut?

1. Rake is the same for every player, thus GTO neutral, IE a bot would not make any decision based on rake, since rake does not put you closer or farther from Nash Equilibrium. In the example above, the profit would happen if the human defended a fraction less than equilibrium, and that allowed EV greater than the rake, which is unlikely, but again not a concern for GTO analysis.

3. You mentioned the prisoner example, sorry I thought you were familiar.

2. Lel

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote

06-25-2017 , 07:03 PM

#10

fishfood69er

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,702

i dont have to defend your shove range all i would have to do is raise you 2bb when im oop you fold a little over half your range ,also your folding like alittle more than half in postion. and i call your allins with a tighter range. thats why that **** is so complex their is alot of variables that pop up.

Quote

06-25-2017 , 08:05 PM

#11

robert_utk

Not From the UK

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,822

Bot starts with button and shoves or folds. If you win the first hand, then you get the button, and the bot will give you back the blinds unless the bot gets dealt AA, and shoves. So your options are to defend the entire range or wait for AA on the button.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote

06-25-2017 , 11:22 PM

#12

fishfood69er

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,702

nah

Quote

Post Reply Subscribe

...