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Old 07-30-2012, 07:15 AM   #1
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air vs air discussion

in a vacuum theres a lot of air vs air spots where you're forced to fold, i just picked some random ones

hand 1-
3x pre, villain calls
flop: 773
villain checks, hero cbets 2/3 pot, villain raises 3.25x

hand 2-
villain 3x, hero 3bets 11bb, call
flop: 935
hero cbets 1/2 pot, villain minraises

hand 3-
hero 3x, villain calls
flop: 5T8
villain checks, hero cbets 2/3 pot, villain raises 3.25x

hand 4-
hero 3x, call
flop: A34
villain checks, hero cbets 2/3 pot, villain raises 3.25x

for each hand say you're playing 100bb deep vs someone w/ your only reads being the other 3 hands(where u folded each time). so u have played maybe 20 hands , how do u mix in a range to play back at them? i mean like what hands that you'd fold readless would you raise/call with

Last edited by mhowe; 07-30-2012 at 07:27 AM.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:18 AM   #2
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Re: air vs air discussion

I generally don't like flatting these kind of bets. If they happen often I try to counter them by 3betting flops. It all depends on the frequency of villian's x/r flops. The hands I'd be doing that with mostly include overcards to the board and any kind of draws.
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:12 AM   #3
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Re: air vs air discussion

Why do you assume villain has air "most of the time" in any of these hands if he is an unknown?

The only flop I might play back without equity against an unknown is 773, by 3bet/folding.

The rest would be spewy because of a lack of information, in my opinion.
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:16 AM   #4
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Re: air vs air discussion

If this is a common scenario for you, you're probably cbetting too much.
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:55 AM   #5
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Re: air vs air discussion

tbh if your cbetting all of them boards with absolute air then i agree with zach that your cbet% is probly way to high.

looking at those boards the only one which is a snap cbet with my entire opening range (vs an unknown) is number 2
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:15 PM   #6
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Re: air vs air discussion

you just defend the top x part of your bluffcatch+ range. on 773 to a 3x raise you never fold a gutshot or Ahi to a check raise, and Khi is close. on 935 to a minraise you never fold anything bar hands with undercards to the 5 (K4 for instance).
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:08 PM   #7
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Re: air vs air discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by partywme View Post
looking at those boards the only one which is a snap cbet with my entire opening range (vs an unknown) is number 2
why not number 4 also?
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:10 PM   #8
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Re: air vs air discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by lnternet View Post
you just defend the top x part of your bluffcatch+ range. on 773 to a 3x raise you never fold a gutshot or Ahi to a check raise, and Khi is close. on 935 to a minraise you never fold anything bar hands with undercards to the 5 (K4 for instance).
can u explain this more clearly please?
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:24 PM   #9
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Re: air vs air discussion

tbh i dont understand how he can be any more clear, he's even given you example ranges to work with
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Old 08-01-2012, 01:03 PM   #10
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Re: air vs air discussion

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Originally Posted by ggnoobs View Post
when you have a hand that qualifies like the ones he's given as examples, raise or call instead of folding

btw great post internet
got it now
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