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25NL: Standard line vs loose passive? 25NL: Standard line vs loose passive?

05-15-2010 , 05:17 AM
20-50bb table before the "Buy in full".

Villain is 53/3 over a 40 hands or so. I'm not sure how he got his stack but he's been limping every pot and calling just about every raise. I've seen him call down OOP with 93o with a pair of 9's to a preflop raiser who missed on his AQ.

Some draws missed, but other random ones popped up. Plus random 2 pair entered my mind. Ok to check river? Do we miss value from random KX hands that aren't 2 pair?

Also my bet sizing seems to suck again since I was left with like a .3 PSB left. Should I have been sizing my bets differently? Comments appreciated on bet sizing.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.25(BB) Replayer
SB ($20.20)
BB ($5)
UTG ($40.15)
UTG+1 ($5.80)
Hero ($20.75)
MP1 ($4.65)
CO ($17)
BTN ($5)

Dealt to Hero A K

UTG calls $0.25, fold, Hero raises to $1, fold, CO calls $1, 3 folds, UTG calls $0.75

FLOP ($3.35) 5 K 7
UTG checks, Hero bets $2.90, CO folds, UTG calls $2.90

TURN ($9.15) 5 K 7 8
UTG checks, Hero bets $7.90, UTG calls $7.90

RIVER ($24.95) 5 K 7 8 9
UTG checks, Hero ???
25NL: Standard line vs loose passive? Quote
05-15-2010 , 05:26 AM
Shove river it's only $7 into a $24 pot and he's going to call worse.

Why are you playing 20-50bb tables anyway? Just curious.
25NL: Standard line vs loose passive? Quote
05-15-2010 , 07:42 AM
The only bet size I don't like is your pre-flop raise, especially if you have loose players to act after you. I generally bump this to 1.25. Not much of a difference, but I'd rather play AK heads up on the flop. I might bet closer to the pot on the flop with as drawish as the board is and with cutoff still to act as well. If people are going to make mistakes calling draws let them make big ones.

Too little money left to not shove it in on the river compared to the pot. That's the hard thing about playing passives, they never tell you if they have a monster or a weak top pair until you see it.
25NL: Standard line vs loose passive? Quote
05-15-2010 , 09:13 AM
Your turn bet makes me think you don't have much of a plan.

On the turn, you have $15ish behind in a 9 dollar pot with tptk.

Clearly a bet is warranted. You COULD bet like $3-5, expect to get calls, setting up the intention of shoving any river.

But given the villain I think betting more for value and protection is better. Once you get over a turn bet size of about $4, you are committed to the hand and can no longer fold.

So I think it's fine to bet a committing amount on the turn with the intention of shoving any river.

We're primarily getting value from KT-KQ here.
25NL: Standard line vs loose passive? Quote
05-15-2010 , 09:20 AM
I think normally bet-sizing would be pretty bad because you can just set up a river shove with a smaller turn bet and expect calls more often on the turn due to your smaller bet.

However in this case he can have draws loads so you charge them nicely on the turn because if they whiff they are putting nothing more in on the river.

Shove river. nh.
25NL: Standard line vs loose passive? Quote
05-15-2010 , 12:00 PM
This is one area that I've noticed I've had problems with. I don't plan my bet sizes according to what I'll have left at the river and how to make sure I price out the draws.

The river is where I normally have the most trouble with these villains. Even though I clearly can't fold they check to me. In the past this is where I normal push all in and then they snap call with like bottom 2 or a backdoor draw of some sort that hit.

I then feel like an idiot, thinking no worse hands are going to call me and my shove is just burning money.

That's obviously not the case here as with the odds he could call me with pretty much anything and be correct.
25NL: Standard line vs loose passive? Quote
05-15-2010 , 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkDonkDonkDonk
Shove river it's only $7 into a $24 pot and he's going to call worse.

Why are you playing 20-50bb tables anyway? Just curious.
Couple reasons. First reason is that I'm under rolled for 25NL. Playing 100bb table I'd have 6 buy in's to maneuver around with.

At 50bb I've got 12 and to me the play is infinitely easier. People seem to play more straight forward at the 50bb tables. I run into much less troublesome players there then at the 100bb tables.


I've moved up from 2NL fairly quickly. With 10k hand at 2NL I'm at a 21bb/100, 5NL -13bb/100 (2.5k), 10NL 12bb/100 (4k), 25NL 28bb/100 (1.5k).

I know that those are extremely small sample size. I fully expect to come down to a more regular win rate but the play at 25NL 50bb tables just seems awful. Where my experience at the 100/250bb tables it is not. Maybe it is and I've just had some bad luck when I've tried them.
25NL: Standard line vs loose passive? Quote
05-15-2010 , 12:33 PM
grunching

vrs loose passives in general, just bet/fold your entire non-nutted value range.

If he's not raising he probably has some weaker 1pr hand, draw, or perhaps sometimes a weak 2pr. But overall I think you're in great shape w/TPTK on this drawy board.
25NL: Standard line vs loose passive? Quote
05-15-2010 , 05:04 PM
I actually think bet sizing is fine vs this villain. Villain doesn't understand committment. We don't need to balance.

What happens when 6 or some terrible card worse than the one that did peel comes off and he actually decides that K2o isn't good on the river? Why not get the value when you can? Who cares about setting up normal sized river shoves if he's going to call off $7 when a "standard" turn bet is $4? How many times have you made large flop and turn bets with a fish putting in 60% of his stack and then folding the river? Happens a lot ime. Leaves $3 on the table if fish finds a river fold if you think he's going to call $7 on the turn as opposed to $4.

nh if you shove river.
25NL: Standard line vs loose passive? Quote
05-15-2010 , 07:49 PM
Based on the passive nature of villain the whole hand / how little you have left in your stack, I think it's an easy river shove.
25NL: Standard line vs loose passive? Quote
05-15-2010 , 08:36 PM
Yeah I guess I just should have shoved. Missed like 28bb's there.

Live and learn.

I ended up check because I thought for sure he was going to flip up like K6 or K8 or something obnoxious but instead he flipped up JJ!?!
25NL: Standard line vs loose passive? Quote
05-15-2010 , 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JH1
What happens when 6 or some terrible card worse than the one that did peel comes off and he actually decides that K2o isn't good on the river?
usually they just jam when this happens.

sizing is fine op, shove riv
25NL: Standard line vs loose passive? Quote

      
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