SB: $100 (100 bb)
BB: $101 (101 bb)
Hero (MP): $147.28 (147.3 bb)
CO: $345.13 (345.1 bb)
BTN: $283.42 (283.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K K
Hero raises to $3.50, CO raises to $13.50, 3 folds, Hero raises to $27.75, CO raises to $84.75, Hero folds

[/hand_history][/converted_hand]

CO is a 41/20 fish with 4% 3bet over 520 hands. F4bet = 0/3
I have to admit that I played Bgame in this session and that I didnt know how he played particularly in this session but he wasnt on tilt for sure.
My 4b is too small as well. I wanted to 4b/fold to $35 to increase the size of the pot in case I win it postflop but to fold if he 5bets because I think a fish that isnt too crazy wouldnt really 5bet alot here deep that isnt the nutz.

On some days I would like the play on some I wouldnt.
Thoughts ?

Why are you 3.5xing pre?

4b is way too small. Should be 2.2-2.5x of 3b sizing, at least $33 esp given his lack of fold to 4b.

Meh ap folding cant be too bad. Unlikely he has any bluff, or JJ/QQ 5b jam esp this deep, and you block AK pretty hard

Folding CAN definitely be bad.

3.5x bc there were 2 fish at the table.


@ lazaro

why it CAN be bad ? U think its bad given the reads ?

150bb isn't too many to stack off with here. This would only be a good fold if villain only ever has AA but that simply won't be the case for almost anyone. If he ever has AK (which there are still more combos of than AA despite us blocking it) or QQ/any bluff, however unlikely, we have to go with it here. Folding KK should be something we do 2 or 3 times ever and there has to be more action than this to justify it.

Not against a fish who 3b only 4% and seems to have more of a propensity to flat 4b than go nuts and 5b 1010-JJ here, esp 150bb deep.

Given fish's 3b %, ft4b (or lack of), we are 150bb deep, we 3.5x from mp instead of std 3x, construct a reasonable 5b all-in range and run KK's equity vs it.

You can't just be lol 150bb deep I haz KK arr-in. It's close and def by no means a fist-pump jam.

I've only folded KK twice fwiw since 5NL-200NL

OK, fair point. Assuming he never folds (which I think against this fish is fair) we need 40% equity when we shove which makes the decision much closer than I thought. I would still say though that we should never fold here... he still only need 3 combos of QQ or 4 combos of AK for it to be profitable. I would add in the occasional random bluff that he's spewing with as well. I just don't think we can ever say with enough certainty that he only has AA to ever fold here.

All of what Minotaur has said itt. This seems like a relatively easy fold w/KK tbh.

don't think we can fold, fun players do random stuff all the time, and 500 hands isn't a representative sample of his 4bet stats pf imo.

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I think folding KK vs this type of player is bad

The historical hand histories I queried at this relative stake level/stake depth/player stats, do not indicate this. Because of the player type we are against (fish), historical data should translate well over a long time period (5+ years) and allow us to pull a reasonable data set. As a result, 5 handed I'd have a hard time folding anywhere near all my KK combos in this spot. Granted, I don't have specific histories where I 4bet to anywhere near this size with this effective stack range (for obvious reasons), so that may be a data confound?

Yall are welcome to analyze your own hand history data sets and reach your own conclusions.

If we're not prepared to gii, we can flat the 3bet pre