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Old 02-03-2012, 02:28 PM   #1
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(25NL) bluffing someone off top pair good or bad?

This player was a good player. Very solid mixed up his game very well. But he only raised with top pair top kicker hands and draws. Other then that when he called its middle pair or top pair weak kicker. So i bet the flop he calls. If he has a flush draw he would raise the flop. So now when the flush card comes off i want to rep the flush. I bet the turn and when he calls i know he no longer has middle pair cause he folds those on the turn to 2 barrels.

So at the point i know he has a weak ace. Should i even follow through with this 3rd barrel here? Its very hard to fold top pair especially since this pot is smaller and not really going to hurt his stack much. And i did get him to fold top pair a few times already on 3 bet pots where i over bet jam. I know hes capable of folding top pair but not when the pots are smaller. He said i will make a bad call and called. So even though he knows its bad he still called kind of made me wonder why i even did it. So now looking at it is it even worth trying to barrel someone off such a small pot? should i just give up after the turn here?



    Merge, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 2 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #11781522

    Hero (SB): $29.11 (116.4 bb)
    BB: $36.77 (147.1 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with 8 7
    Hero raises to $0.50, BB calls $0.25

    Flop: ($1) 3 Q A (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets $0.50, BB calls $0.50

    Turn: ($2) 4 (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets $1.50, BB calls $1.50

    River: ($5) 5 (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets $5, BB calls $5

    Spoiler:



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

    Last edited by TooCuriousso1; 02-03-2012 at 03:00 PM.
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    Old 02-03-2012, 02:46 PM   #2
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    Re: bluffing someone off top pair good or bad?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by card View Post
    mixed up his game very well. But he only raised with top pair top kicker hands and draws.
    Kinda contradicting yourself no?

    I recently watched a video by foxwoods fiend(I think anyways), where he said if you are fairly positive you know what the guy has and you are still betting and praying he folds it, its probably a bad bluff.

    Id probably give up or overbet the river, but never a standard value bet, your gona get "sigh" looked up too often
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    Old 02-03-2012, 03:57 PM   #3
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    Re: (25NL) bluffing someone off top pair good or bad?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by card View Post
    And i did get him to fold top pair a few times already on 3 bet pots where i over bet jam.
    How do you know this?
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    Old 02-03-2012, 06:10 PM   #4
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    Re: (25NL) bluffing someone off top pair good or bad?

    no one folds TP headsup, not that i hate the 3 barrel here
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    Old 02-03-2012, 06:47 PM   #5
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    Re: bluffing someone off top pair good or bad?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by purrretrog View Post
    if you are fairly positive you know what the guy has and you are still betting and praying he folds it, its probably a bad bluff.
    This makes no sense. So if I know a guy has 3rd pair and my range has every value hand and I bet river with a bluff praying he folds 3rd pair it is a bad bluff? Yeah ok...
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    Old 02-03-2012, 08:13 PM   #6
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    Re: bluffing someone off top pair good or bad?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zachvac View Post
    This makes no sense. So if I know a guy has 3rd pair and my range has every value hand and I bet river with a bluff praying he folds 3rd pair it is a bad bluff? Yeah ok...
    Lol iknow I think I explained it poorly, cause for obvious reasons your praying your opponent folds on any bluff, I can't remember the video perfectly but I think it was in regards to bluffing when your opponents hand is face up. Which is the case for this hand.
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    Old 02-06-2012, 10:31 AM   #7
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    Re: (25NL) bluffing someone off top pair good or bad?

    he was tanking on some hands and then folding. So i know he was folding pairs. But i wasn't sure if it was top pair. The reason i know he folded some top pairs is it was pretty obvious. He always potted it with top pair on the river and id call to see what hands hes potting it and every time it was top pair. So in 3b pots he would bet flop pot turn and i know he had top pair and id jam over the top when teh flush or straight card came off and he would tank for very long and then fold. But it was a like over bet jam and i had equity to draws if he did call. So thats why i made this move. But the difference is this pot is smaller and its not going to really destroy his stack like an all in shove would. So his calling range goes up when the pots are smaller which i didn't know. I knew he had top pair once he called this turn for a pot bet. Because if i check he pots the turn so he only sticks with pot bets or calls with top pair. Thats how i know he has top pair. I thought it was a good barrel if the pot was bigger and it would hurt his stack more. But 5 bucks he probably farted and called. Thats whats tough with 25 nl the money not enough in smaller pots for players fold they snap call.
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    Old 02-07-2012, 03:01 AM   #8
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    Re: (25NL) bluffing someone off top pair good or bad?

    I think this is a terrible spot to 3barrel bluff. Given the small pot size and the villains call ott which I would have double barreled as well I don't see anything folding as anything that was calling otf and ott is surely not folding to a pot size bet here, doubt a shove would work often.
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    Old 02-08-2012, 10:29 PM   #9
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    Re: (25NL) bluffing someone off top pair good or bad?

    check back turn or overbet bluff river, like $14.
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    Old 02-10-2012, 03:54 AM   #10
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    Re: (25NL) bluffing someone off top pair good or bad?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samooth View Post
    check back turn or overbet bluff river, like $14.
    if i over bet he woudl of folded for sure. Cause he took a long time and said im a make a bad call. 5.00 just not gonna get the job done. he probably wipe his ass with 5.00. I could of gave up to but i thought maybe the over bet would of worked there.
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    Old 02-10-2012, 12:39 PM   #11
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    Re: (25NL) bluffing someone off top pair good or bad?

    bet -> bet -> overbet takes it, just because he never have a really strong holding here like ever as u stated above and can narrow his range down to like A9o ish kinda hand .. jizz board to do it on considering your reads
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