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Old 06-01-2012, 12:38 PM   #1
centurion
 
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25 nl checking back top pair.

This guy was this over aggressive 75% 3 betting player so i wanted to keep pot small and low boards against these kind of players i check back a lot against. They tend to hit big hands on low boards. And he had been donk firing a lot of flops. but this time he check back. What do you guys think about checking this to the river? Its his first check back all match i found it kind of odd he didnt fire. I felt like he wanted to go for a check raise. That kind of a board is actually a scary board for my hand and if he raises im pretty much way ahead or way behind situation i didn't want to get caught up in. When aggressive players check back it a red flag imo. But maybe im costing myself money against worst hands.
And i never limp unless opponents are constantly 3 betting so then i limp he raised 100 percnt of hands for over an hr and with a 7 i know im ahead of his range so now i turned my limp into basically 3 betting him with position. It works really well it puts the pressure back on them post flop.



    Merge, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 2 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #13030511

    Hero (SB): $25.10 (100.4 bb)
    BB: $36.52 (146.1 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with 7 A
    Hero completes, BB raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2.25, BB calls $1.50

    Flop: ($4.50) A 2 3 (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero checks

    Turn: ($4.50) T (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero checks

    River: ($4.50) 9 (2 players)
    BB bets $3.37, Hero calls $3.37




    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
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    Old 06-01-2012, 01:26 PM   #2
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    Re: 25 nl checking back top pair.

    Don't 3b this preflop especially against someone aggro. It just makes no sense.
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    Old 06-01-2012, 01:29 PM   #3
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    Re: 25 nl checking back top pair.

    I dont think you can get 3 streets of value for this hand. I like the check on the flop but I think a bet on the turn and river are mandatory.
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    Old 06-01-2012, 02:08 PM   #4
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    Re: 25 nl checking back top pair.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ReDLiNeMaKeDiKHaRd View Post
    Don't 3b this preflop especially against someone aggro. It just makes no sense.
    Against a guy who plays 100 percent of hands and calls 100 percent of raises its very mandatory for me to raise any hand thats ahead especially with postion to build a big pot pre flop. I do this all the time and crush these guys i actually got this guy for 3 buyins doing this strategy. They over play any pair they get cause the pot is so bloated. But in this spot he didn't donk fire for first time in over an hr and checked back so i decided to check back. just based on the tendancy i was afraid to fire since all of a sudden he got passive. When i notice things like this its usually a big hand but not always and since hes paying off with pairs i guess the 2nd post was right i should of fired the turn. I just had bad feeling.
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    Old 06-01-2012, 02:11 PM   #5
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    Re: 25 nl checking back top pair.

    I think thats the biggest mistake i see is when a opponent is playing an over aggressive player heads up and is afraid to raise show down hands like ace high. And a lot of the times the over aggressive player wants to rep the ace they 3 barrell all in with complete air. So i always 3 bet it against a opponent that raises 100 percent of hands and calls 100 percent of raises. All the way down to like even k 10. Your just beating so much of there range pre flop and what happens is they end up 4 betting hands that dominate you like a 10 or a j they go over the top and you can just get away from the hand pre flop and not lose that much. any time its like a 4 bet over my raise and they dont 4 bet often then i will even fold like aj. Thats there strategy but when they come in with that one extra bet there always nutted so the 3 bet kind of tells me where mi at once they flat there almost dominated every time going into the flop. And him being out of position its plus ev every time.
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    Old 06-01-2012, 02:30 PM   #6
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    Re: 25 nl checking back top pair.

    i probably wouldn't 3-bet, unless you are intending to 5-bet shove if he 4-bets. if he's reeeeally over-aggro, it's probably wouldn't be too bad actually. wait just realised you limped, dislike.

    if he really is calling all 3-bets and not folding pairs postflop then i'd probably just go bet, bet, bet...but i also don't mind checking back the flop or turn or river. might be slightly thin to bet all 3, but if he's as loose as you've described it's probably fine. if you do check one of the streets, you really have to be betting the other 2.

    Quote:
    It works really well it puts the pressure back on them post flop.
    what pressure did you put on them postflop? just bet!
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    Old 06-01-2012, 02:41 PM   #7
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    Re: 25 nl checking back top pair.

    Not sure whats worse....limping with A7 or flatting and then 3 betting it. Dont do either as a standard
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    Old 06-01-2012, 05:59 PM   #8
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    Re: 25 nl checking back top pair.

    nh. pre flop is great with the right dynamic.
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    Old 06-01-2012, 08:16 PM   #9
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    Re: 25 nl checking back top pair.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by disco5tu View Post
    i probably wouldn't 3-bet, unless you are intending to 5-bet shove if he 4-bets. if he's reeeeally over-aggro, it's probably wouldn't be too bad actually. wait just realised you limped, dislike.

    if he really is calling all 3-bets and not folding pairs postflop then i'd probably just go bet, bet, bet...but i also don't mind checking back the flop or turn or river. might be slightly thin to bet all 3, but if he's as loose as you've described it's probably fine. if you do check one of the streets, you really have to be betting the other 2.


    what pressure did you put on them postflop? just bet!
    Normally i would but it was his first check the entire we played. We was donk firing and also continuation betting every single hand. this guy was full on aggression. So i thought it was odd he checked and decide to check back. But I think the turn i should of fired but i will show the spoiler i dind't want to show it so people go into a result oriented mode. But i think betting is fine to i just had a bad feelign when he checked and decided to keep pot small. And that why i was limp 3 betting ace high because he was calling with 4,5 another hand he had 3 8. It was any 2 cards. Limp re raising works really well against aggro players i won most of my money off these kind of players. That style gives them trouble cause i control the size of the pot more pre flop on the button by limping. If i want to make the pot big hes goig to raise anyways i can re raise pre flop and take some of the aggression away from them. and they always call regardless. These kind of players are just easy money.
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    Old 06-01-2012, 08:21 PM   #10
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    Re: 25 nl checking back top pair.

    Well its not letting me show the spoiler he had 4,5. Thats why not reraising a 7 is a big mistake. Any time you have a over aggressive player dominated pre flop not raising i know is a big mistake. If you know there calling with a worse hand you have to raise imo. There trying to rep the hands your playing post flop. So he won the hand but i still think i should of bet the turn even though i thought it was odd he was checking back for the first time. I was just seeing if maybe there doing something odd during the match see if any of you play it cautiously but in the end im probably leveling myself and losign value against middle pair he has.

    Anytime they do something odd its usually some big hand they wanna check raise. I almost though about raising the river cause he was gong for thin value with middle pairs but 2 checks i just decide to play it safe. But i dont know why you guys are afraid to raise with a ace against a over aggressive guy. Thats a great spot so many times they rep it as soon as i check and i get 3 barrels just about every time and get most of there stack.
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    Old 06-02-2012, 07:14 AM   #11
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    Re: 25 nl checking back top pair.

    lmao not sure who's worse you or villain.
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    Old 06-05-2012, 11:45 AM   #12
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    Re: 25 nl checking back top pair.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ReDLiNeMaKeDiKHaRd View Post
    lmao not sure who's worse you or villain.

    See administrator people like this you should remove from 2+2 or penalize them. He doesn't even talk about the hand or state how he would play it or go into player tendancies. I am sure my win rate at 11 bb per 100 is higher then yours in heads up. I actually lost the minimum on this hand you would of been stacked off buddy.
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    Old 06-05-2012, 12:11 PM   #13
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    Re: 25 nl checking back top pair.

    you have no idea what you are doing, just doing things randomly. which is fine of course, maybe you eventually find out what makes sense and what doesnt.

    vs 75% 3bet you should raise/4bet/call and Ax hand for value
    you should limp or fold any hand that is too weak to defend with vs a 3bet, whether you limp or fold depends on hit raise vs limp frequency. if he always raises, you should fold hands that are too weak to limp/call, and limp/call hands that are good enough.

    trickling in limp/3bets is unnecessary. it might be ok anyway.
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    Old 06-05-2012, 01:44 PM   #14
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    Re: 25 nl checking back top pair.

    Flop check is fine, but not betting the turn with the intention of betting the river is a mistake I think.
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    Old 06-06-2012, 10:07 AM   #15
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    Re: 25 nl checking back top pair.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lnternet View Post
    vs 75% 3bet you should raise/4bet/call and Ax hand for value
    you should limp or fold any hand that is too weak to defend with vs a 3bet, whether you limp or fold depends on hit raise vs limp frequency. if he always raises, you should fold hands that are too weak to limp/call, and limp/call hands that are good enough.

    trickling in limp/3bets is unnecessary. it might be ok anyway.
    +1,
    This

    I understand limp/calling vs super LAG but even then it's, meh?,but against super dooper LAG/MANIAC you can actually raise and call or raise/4 bet. If he is 3 betting 75% as stated in OP you have to play MUCH different than if you are just facing a pretty aggressive player. This villain is not "pretty aggressive" he's a totally reckless moron and there's no reason to not bet your good hands because he will raise with worse than A7o (obviously) then you can 4 bet.

    I think you have to be willing to tolerate a lot of variance when you face a total maniac like this and your not going to be able to use pot control tactics and such you just need to get it in with good equity vs his range and hope you fade bad beats or "cold deck"..like when he has A8 in a preflop jam situation

    I think your post flop play was OK. I usually bet here OTF flop when he checks but just call him down on turn and river, i might even x one street back but never two. Alot depends on whether or not this dude x/raises often. The only real problem with betting the flop is the fear of a x/r, that would put you in a pickle.
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