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06-19-2014 , 09:43 AM
But that wasn't my argument, my argument was that this situation is completely different depending on stats of opponents and current conditions of the match

You havn't offered any insight as to why it's not silly, so I'm not sure what your point is. If you think it's a good strategy to get better at HU hold them you might be right, but at this point I don't agree and would need to be given some reason otherwise.

Whats the point of posting naked hand histories when everyone in this forum knows that the most important part of winning at HU is exploiting opponents tendancies to make mistakes.
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06-19-2014 , 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by samooth
wat?
Maybe you could be a bit more specific about what you disagree with?

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06-19-2014 , 01:56 PM
Of course you should take game theory into account. That's where the "wat?" comes from.
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06-19-2014 , 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rei Ayanami
This response misses the point entirety. You're making assumptions about the OP's chosen mode of presentation that are very uncharitable.

As a side note, lol at 1) GTO play at >100bb stacks being within anyone in the world's current capabilities; and 2) GTO play winning only 2bb/100.
+1
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06-19-2014 , 05:11 PM
the wat? comes from me not understanding the quoted question. the gif is, ironically, v accurate if you mean that we need stats on villain and how he perceives us to be able to take game theory into account, but as said, i don't understand what you mean at all.
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06-19-2014 , 07:32 PM
Please don't bite the hand that feeds you, gentlemen.

To the other half of the thread, what is the point of putting so much effort in helping these arrogant ****s that despise your advice?

God this thread pisses me off.

(also I would fold the turn but it seems close and yeah I would never bet so small on the river)
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06-19-2014 , 08:29 PM
I agree......peeps put some time into reading this thread and actually trying to help the Op....know wonder i hear 100nl be solid these days
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06-20-2014 , 03:42 AM
It's pretty funny how many ppl in this thread believe the BB should call everything that beats AJ otr, but also think the SB is never bluffing. This is ****ing why you don't base your playes on some stupid stats, that in all likelyhood will not tell you much about this specific situation. The way you appearantly play poker is to make assumptions out of close to thin air. In this case you're assuming "SB is allways valuebetting", and "BB is allways calling his bluffcatchers". Ok, might be true, might be false. A damn 3bet stat won't tell us **** about the truth of those assumptions. Experiance with the player pool can only be so helpful. Actually, this hand was played dead readless at 100NL zoom. Stacksizes are the way they are because of zoom, not because we have played before. If I had reads that told me what to do in this situation, I wouldn't have posted the damn hand. Any idiot can check back AJ here if you have a read that BB is allways calling. Any idiot can fold the turn if he has a read that BB is autobetting all his air on the flop. Of course we should base our strategy in game theory. It's so obvious that your assumptions will never be correct at GTO. It's so easy to see that this is not the convergence point. Your approach to the game is pretty damn pathetic. We are not in 2010 anymore.

#tiltrant
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06-20-2014 , 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Knott
Please don't bite the hand that feeds you, gentlemen.

To the other half of the thread, what is the point of putting so much effort in helping these arrogant ****s that despise your advice?

God this thread pisses me off.

(also I would fold the turn but it seems close and yeah I would never bet so small on the river)
What half of the thread do you agree with?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveb1
I agree......peeps put some time into reading this thread and actually trying to help the Op....know wonder i hear 100nl be solid these days
OP wasn't enquiring about what was the most exploitive strat, he was asking for some sort of feedback regarding what peoples default range looks like at the river, then give him a further idea what he is/should be betting. Its actually a pretty complex spot(one which I certainly can't answer to the OPs liking), Id be willing to bet that anyone ITT trying to "help" OP, and doesn't understand that exploitive comments are none of his concern, does not beat the games in 2014(without severe bum hunting).
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06-20-2014 , 08:17 AM
Calling turn is likely correct and GTO. Checking river is definitely GTO. It's not that hard of a spot in theory on the river. If you consider we have a bluff catcher, we should always check. The only reason we bet is because you consider we can be called with worse A high. In theory worse A high didn't bet the turn since it is to a bluff catcher so it's out of his range once he does bet the turn. You would be playing exploitatively to assume otherwise. You might say well I can bluff him off a better hand but what did he bet the turn with that's not air that now wants to fold? The answer is nothing.

I have seen guys who will look you up with a hand like A3 here after betting the turn, but those fish are the exception not the rule.
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06-20-2014 , 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrretrog
What half of the thread do you agree with?
Not about who I agree with really but there is obviously nothing wrong with posting a hand without reads (for whatever reason), especially when it's not 1979 anymore and analyzing hands from different than exploitative standpoint makes sense.

I just don't understand why people here put so much effort in trying to "convert" these ignorant ****s...
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06-20-2014 , 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrretrog
What half of the thread do you agree with?



OP wasn't enquiring about what was the most exploitive strat, he was asking for some sort of feedback regarding what peoples default range looks like at the river, then give him a further idea what he is/should be betting. Its actually a pretty complex spot(one which I certainly can't answer to the OPs liking), Id be willing to bet that anyone ITT trying to "help" OP, and doesn't understand that exploitive comments are none of his concern, does not beat the games in 2014(without severe bum hunting).
i tryed to help OP , i didnt have any idea what he wanted to know, as he didnt ask a question in his OP....i just presumed that he was wanting opinions on his turn /riv play / villains riv call ....which i gave opinion on lol

Imo you dont want to be betting too much on your above statement
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06-21-2014 , 12:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fityfmi
It's pretty funny how many ppl in this thread believe the BB should call everything that beats AJ otr, but also think the SB is never bluffing. This is ****ing why you don't base your playes on some stupid stats, that in all likelyhood will not tell you much about this specific situation. The way you appearantly play poker is to make assumptions out of close to thin air. In this case you're assuming "SB is allways valuebetting", and "BB is allways calling his bluffcatchers". Ok, might be true, might be false. A damn 3bet stat won't tell us **** about the truth of those assumptions. Experiance with the player pool can only be so helpful. Actually, this hand was played dead readless at 100NL zoom. Stacksizes are the way they are because of zoom, not because we have played before. If I had reads that told me what to do in this situation, I wouldn't have posted the damn hand. Any idiot can check back AJ here if you have a read that BB is allways calling. Any idiot can fold the turn if he has a read that BB is autobetting all his air on the flop. Of course we should base our strategy in game theory. It's so obvious that your assumptions will never be correct at GTO. It's so easy to see that this is not the convergence point. Your approach to the game is pretty damn pathetic. We are not in 2010 anymore.

#tiltrant
if #tiltrant was meant to advocate ur GTO play or support for GTO play iin this situation, then I fail to understand why u half pot the river, which is as non gto as possible.. if ur half potting river whch you somehow managed to get to, GTO-101 will tell you what vilain's calling frequency should be and it is pretty damn high for him to breakeven with that bet sizing...


also some ppl loled at jesse's gto players winning at 2bb/100 comment, might i remind you folks jesse is being generous, it would actually be 0bb/100(-ve with the rake)
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06-21-2014 , 01:03 AM
this is getting so dumb, poker's alive
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06-21-2014 , 02:55 AM
Quote:
Betting the river in this spot may get him to fold the very very bottom of his range that beats you but the way it played out it looks like you have the type of hand that you have, so I [know] he never folds a pair but always folds worse hands than yours. Obviously all of this would completely change with reads/stats/relevant information.
And extending this we see that since he knows this we would never bluff this hand or any other, since we don't get to the river with worse. Then our bet represents 100% value so to call would be a mistake. We now assume he is willing to make that mistake or is unaware of it. But we have no solid reason to assume that given the OP.
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06-21-2014 , 06:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectralradius
if #tiltrant was meant to advocate ur GTO play or support for GTO play iin this situation, then I fail to understand why u half pot the river, which is as non gto as possible.. if ur half potting river whch you somehow managed to get to, GTO-101 will tell you what vilain's calling frequency should be and it is pretty damn high for him to breakeven with that bet sizing...


also some ppl loled at jesse's gto players winning at 2bb/100 comment, might i remind you folks jesse is being generous, it would actually be 0bb/100(-ve with the rake)
trolololololol
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06-21-2014 , 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rei Ayanami
trolololololol
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06-21-2014 , 12:25 PM
Hahaha yea that last one put a smile on my face, good find Samooth....nearly as much as our break even GTO bro's post lol

Last edited by steveb1; 06-21-2014 at 12:30 PM.
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06-22-2014 , 02:54 AM
Rofl golden.
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06-23-2014 , 12:54 AM
HEADS UP IS SO HARD
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07-01-2014 , 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveb1
Hahaha yea that last one put a smile on my face, good find Samooth....nearly as much as our break even GTO bro's post lol
I'd be willing to bet you couldn't break even against our "break even GTO bro" what you say rockstar?
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07-01-2014 , 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yukyuk
I'd be willing to bet you couldn't break even against our "break even GTO bro" what you say rockstar?
+1
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