100NL 88 double paired board on the river

[rakeme]

Originally Posted by Khal Drogo

Might bet turn to c/f river

Are you stacking off on turn if he jams?

sidenote: I usually flat 22-99 from the BB as a standard, is this bad? I'll start 3betting some of them if villain is likely to 4bet light so I can shove over it.

[Aero1441]

Why are you checking turn? It basically turned your hand into a guessing game where you have no idea what to do. Why not just valuebet turn to C/F river and play perfectly?

[H.N.D]

i prefer to shove the river than check calling, if check, check fold

[thin fold]

due to the fact that he probably floats a lot of KJ QJ JT QT type hands on this board than this is a shrug-call, since he is only repping 9x.

[DrHouseMD]

Originally Posted by Aero1441

Why are you checking turn? It basically turned your hand into a guessing game where you have no idea what to do. Why not just valuebet turn to C/F river and play perfectly?

not sure, was begin off the match and he shouldnt have connected too much and more floats then value hands i think, but i might be wrong.

H.N.D what do you expect to call if you shove river? not alot of hands can call and its prob overplaying imo.

[H.N.D]

sorry, what i meant was bet bet bet, if bet c/c c then i would f, if bet bet then i would c/f if i check

b/b/f > b/b/b > b c/c c/f > b c/c c/c

as played, fold he has it more often than all of you think

sorry if any of this is un-clear

[BreakYaNeck]

Originally Posted by H.N.D

sorry, what i meant was bet bet bet, if bet c/c c then i would f, if bet bet then i would c/f if i check

b/b/f > b/b/b > b c/c c/f > b c/c c/c

as played, fold he has it more often than all of you think

sorry if any of this is un-clear

if your betting that turn you should not be folding this river. bet bet fold may be one of the last lines id consider taking

[H.N.D]

Originally Posted by BreakYaNeck

if your betting that turn you should not be folding this river. bet bet fold may be one of the last lines id consider taking

i feel it depends on match dynamic, cuz if i'm villian i'm never bluffing that river in a 3b pot, but again villian is probably a fish that's why you are playing him in the first place, they don't think.

b/b/c-c might be optimal its 5x into 9x i duno man.. really need balls to bluff there even if your a fish. maybe its just me.

but basically for the sake of this hand i would say just bet the turn instead, your hand is not strong enough to induce bets frm a mad floater who decides to barrell off.

but again as played, i fold the river because of his sizing

[BreakYaNeck]

Originally Posted by H.N.D

i feel it depends on match dynamic, cuz if i'm villian i'm never bluffing that river in a 3b pot, but again villian is probably a fish that's why you are playing him in the first place, they don't think.

b/b/c-c might be optimal its 5x into 9x i duno man.. really need balls to bluff there even if your a fish. maybe its just me.

but basically for the sake of this hand i would say just bet the turn instead, your hand is not strong enough to induce bets frm a mad floater who decides to barrell off.

but again as played, i fold the river because of his sizing

This is a fine river to bluff if you are villain even if he is a fish. Fish thinking can also be hey he 3 bet hes got big cards etc. I know Id probably jam here as a bluff as it really just puts OP in a tough spot

Bolded part: Sure our hand is plenty strong enough to induce bets. Why wouldnt it be? You dont think he 4 bets TT-AA pre? I think we can discount these so then it really just comes down to if he has 9x and some of the time he will. I still dont find a fold though. I like B C C but Bet bet call is cool too.

[H.N.D]

Originally Posted by DrHouseMD

not sure, was begin off the match and he shouldnt have connected too much and more floats then value hands i think, but i might be wrong.

H.N.D what do you expect to call if you shove river? not alot of hands can call and its prob overplaying imo.

after much thought, i would say i agree with you, probably b/b/c-c but depends on your sizing. if you bet like 29 < OTT i would juz shove the river but if you bet like 22-24 den i guess check-call is fine. i think in game i will have juz bet 31 OTT and shove

[Khal Drogo]

Originally Posted by BreakYaNeck

if your betting that turn you should not be folding this river. bet bet fold may be one of the last lines id consider taking

I think there are quite a few people against whom betting turn jamming river is too thin, betting turn to c/c river is bad because he will not have air calling on the turn and he will not turn "non-air" into a bluff, and checking the turn is not optimal because he will not bluff enough. I don't think betting the turn with the intention to c/f river is that bad, but I could be way off here, and I do respect your opinion. You say he's going to bluff river putting us on overcards if we bet turn check river. However I'd argue that he doesn't really have any air that he wants to bluff with after calling again on this turn, and also he wouldn't really put us on overcards, as this is a flop texture we'd check often and a turn we'd check very often.

[BreakYaNeck]

Originally Posted by Khal Drogo

I think there are quite a few people against whom betting turn jamming river is too thin, betting turn to c/c river is bad because he will not have air calling on the turn and he will not turn "non-air" into a bluff, and checking the turn is not optimal because he will not bluff enough. I don't think betting the turn with the intention to c/f river is that bad, but I could be way off here, and I do respect your opinion. You say he's going to bluff river putting us on overcards if we bet turn check river. However I'd argue that he doesn't really have any air that he wants to bluff with after calling again on this turn, and also he wouldn't really put us on overcards, as this is a flop texture we'd check often and a turn we'd check very often.

If this is the case are you betting turn as a bluff?

[Khal Drogo]

Of course not. I think he still has a tonne of worse hands calling on the turn to vbet, but river might be too thin to value jam.

[H.N.D]

Originally Posted by BreakYaNeck

This is a fine river to bluff if you are villain even if he is a fish. Fish thinking can also be hey he 3 bet hes got big cards etc. I know Id probably jam here as a bluff as it really just puts OP in a tough spot

Bolded part: Sure our hand is plenty strong enough to induce bets. Why wouldnt it be? You dont think he 4 bets TT-AA pre? I think we can discount these so then it really just comes down to if he has 9x and some of the time he will. I still dont find a fold though. I like B C C but Bet bet call is cool too.

lol. if someone's stats were
3b:19
f4b: 90
5b: 2
3bfcb: 85
3btcb: 55
3brcb: 80

i think most of us play something like that so..

and/or down a buy in already

will you flat tt qq kk aa? answer: very often

[BreakYaNeck]

Originally Posted by H.N.D

lol. if someone's stats were
3b:19
f4b: 90
5b: 2
3bfcb: 85
3btcb: 55
3brcb: 80

i think most of us play something like that so..

and/or down a buy in already

will you flat tt qq kk aa? answer: very often

Early on pretty much no one ever flats QQ KK and AA especially 6 hands into a match. I dont see the point of ever flatting these early because you are still readless and have no idea about their frequencies.

The stats you gave are completely irrelevant because if you are playing like that vs everyone, its definitely a leak.