So you lead out with 88 with or without bdfd? Makes sense to have some middling hands in our cbet range that gain value by folding live outs and can be called by worse. It just seems to me like the 2nd nfd, probably not much worse, would gain more than it would lose in the majority of big pots it finds itself in. Whereas QQ without a
would lose more than it would gain when stacks go in or even threaten to on this board. That is fuzzy thinking but I can't take it further right now