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| Poker Legislation Discussions of various poker-related laws and steps players can take to push for better laws. |
04-29-2009, 12:09 PM
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#16
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banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 848
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Re: x-post from nvg- Minnesota blocking ISP's to internet sites
wtf is this shiat i live in minnesota
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04-29-2009, 12:16 PM
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#17
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veteran
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 3,335
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Re: x-post from nvg- Minnesota blocking ISP's to internet sites
IMO, this action violates the 1st amendment protection of free speech. These websites have free play. I have read many constitution attorneys who opine that the website blocking provisions of the UIGEA violate the 1st amendment.
However, this is why I fear state regulation of online gambling. State governments, like Kentucky, disregard individual rights more often than the federal government.
In general, this will action will never work. Most of the ISP's will ignore it anyway. Still it is the first attempt by a state or federal governmental entity to block websites. If really attempted, I expect lots of litigation.
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04-29-2009, 12:20 PM
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#18
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PPA Board Member/LSN Dir
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: It's a PPA post only if so stated
Posts: 5,589
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Re: x-post from nvg- Minnesota blocking ISP's to internet sites
My dark side wants me to post the following: "C'mon, getting a proxy IP address out of state is no big deal, and when the other states do the same thing, we just need to get out of country proxy IPs. It still far better than taking the chance that Federally legalized and regulated online poker will require me to pay my taxes and maybe increase the rake. Do nothing, everything is fine as it is."
This huge fight had to happen sooner or later, get involved: write letters, join the PPA, etc ....
Skallagrim
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04-29-2009, 12:26 PM
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#19
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Rich Muny - PPA Board VP
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Supporting the Daily Action Plan
Posts: 17,578
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Re: x-post from nvg- Minnesota blocking ISP's to internet sites
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPFisher55
IMO, this action violates the 1st amendment protection of free speech. These websites have free play. I have read many constitution attorneys who opine that the website blocking provisions of the UIGEA violate the 1st amendment.
However, this is why I fear state regulation of online gambling. State governments, like Kentucky, disregard individual rights more often than the federal government.
In general, this will action will never work. Most of the ISP's will ignore it anyway. Still it is the first attempt by a state or federal governmental entity to block websites. If really attempted, I expect lots of litigation.
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Definitely expect lots of litigation, just as in Kentucky. However, keep in mind that a judge in Kentucky even felt the state had a right to seize overseas, which obviously goes well beyond blocking. IMO this all shows that we poker players need to remain proactive in fighting for their rights.
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04-29-2009, 12:27 PM
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#20
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Rich Muny - PPA Board VP
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Supporting the Daily Action Plan
Posts: 17,578
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Re: x-post from nvg- Minnesota blocking ISP's to internet sites
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skallagrim
This huge fight had to happen sooner or later, get involved: write letters, join the PPA, etc ....
Skallagrim
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Absolutely. This is the best Congress poker will get, so we'd all better secure our rights now.
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04-29-2009, 12:31 PM
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#21
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old hand
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Barney Frank Superman
Posts: 1,505
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Re: x-post from nvg- Minnesota blocking ISP's to internet sites
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skallagrim
My dark side wants me to post the following: "C'mon, getting a proxy IP address out of state is no big deal, and when the other states do the same thing, we just need to get out of country proxy IPs. It still far better than taking the chance that Federally legalized and regulated online poker will require me to pay my taxes and maybe increase the rake. Do nothing, everything is fine as it is."
This huge fight had to happen sooner or later, get involved: write letters, join the PPA, etc ....
Skallagrim
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Oh yes. People who want to keep the 'status quo' remind me of the same people who posted on this forum, and others, things like, "Party will NEVER leave the US market! They aren't crazy enough to give up all that money."
And they won't have to worry over phony issues like taxes and rake when they can't even access any poker sites on their computers.
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04-29-2009, 12:33 PM
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#22
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Syracuse
Posts: 27,025
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Re: x-post from nvg- Minnesota blocking ISP's to internet sites
DPS press release:
Quote:
The Minnesota Department of Public Safety (DPS) Alcohol and Gambling Enforcement Division (AGED) today announced that it has served written notice to 11 national and regional telephone and Internet service providers (ISPs) instructing them to prohibit access of all Minnesota-based computers to nearly 200 online gambling websites. Online gambling is illegal in all U.S. states.
Written notice was served to AT&T Internet Services, San Antonio; Charter Communications, St. Louis; Comcast Cable, Moorestown, N.J.; Direct TV, Los Angeles; Dish Network, Englewood., Colo.; Embarq and Sprint/Nextel, both of Overland Park, Kan.; Frontier Communications, Stamford, Conn.; Qwest, Denver; Verizon Wireless, Bedminster, N.J.; and Wildblue Communications, Greenwood Village, Colo.
“We are putting site operators and Minnesota online gamblers on notice and in advance,” says John Willems, director of AGED. “Disruption of these sites’ cash flow will negatively impact their business models. State residents with online escrow accounts should be aware that access to their accounts may be jeopardized and their funds in peril.”
Believed the first attempt by a state to employ this federal statute to restrict access to online gambling sites, the letters cites U.S. Code, Title 18, Section 1084, (d); notices were delivered Mon., April 27. Congress enacted the statute in 1961 in recognition of the need for states to control illegal gambling activities and granted authority for use of the statue to state law enforcement agencies.
Response from the notified ISPs is expected within two to three weeks, at which time issues of non-compliance will be referred to the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). Acknowledging the effort as an initial sample, Willems anticipates the program expanding to address thousands of sites, depending on compliance. He notes that the required technology to restrict geographic access to particular sites is a relatively straightforward procedure on the part of service providers.
In the written notices, AGED also provided the sites’ telephone numbers and requested access to those numbers by Minnesotans to be prohibited. For more than two decades, telecoms have shut down telephone numbers at the request of law enforcement agencies when believed to be involved in illegal activities, such as sports book-making telephone numbers.
“In Minnesota, and for Minnesotans, the primary issues are legality, state self-governance and accountability,” says Willems. “In broader context, the long-running debate on online gambling continues to raise significant issues, including absence of policy and regulation, individual rights, societal impact, international fair-trade practices, and funding for criminal and terrorist organizations.”
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04-29-2009, 12:39 PM
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#23
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adept
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,169
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Re: x-post from nvg- Minnesota blocking ISP's to internet sites
Online gambling is illegal in all U.S. states?????
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04-29-2009, 12:40 PM
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#24
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old hand
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: BluffLand
Posts: 1,394
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Re: x-post from nvg- Minnesota blocking ISP's to internet sites
it's sad that this will need to be fought. I am ashamed to live here (Tim Pawlenty lives right down the street, will wear him out about this).
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04-29-2009, 12:40 PM
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#25
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Rich Muny - PPA Board VP
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Supporting the Daily Action Plan
Posts: 17,578
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Re: x-post from nvg- Minnesota blocking ISP's to internet sites
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overdrive
Oh yes. People who want to keep the 'status quo' remind me of the same people who posted on this forum, and others, things like, "Party will NEVER leave the US market! They aren't crazy enough to give up all that money."
And they won't have to worry over phony issues like taxes and rake when they can't even access any poker sites on their computers.
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UIGEA should have been a wake-up call. Unfortunately, one effect of our fighting back has been to keep access to U.S.-facing sites, perhaps lulling some into thinking that's the worse that can happen, when it was really just the beginning.
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04-29-2009, 12:42 PM
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#26
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old hand
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: BluffLand
Posts: 1,394
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Re: x-post from nvg- Minnesota blocking ISP's to internet sites
Quote:
Originally Posted by soulvamp
Online gambling is illegal in all U.S. states?????
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obv one of the reasons the Star Tribune is 150 million in debt. Nice fact checking!
I am so tired of hearing from the main stream media, especially newspapers and magazines that they are dying because of ebay, craigslist or google. You are dying because the information you have is often incorrect and of no use to people that are informed.
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04-29-2009, 12:45 PM
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#27
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Rich Muny - PPA Board VP
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Supporting the Daily Action Plan
Posts: 17,578
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Re: x-post from nvg- Minnesota blocking ISP's to internet sites
I just communicated with Pappas on this issue. PPA is on it.
I recommend everyone in Minn. contact Gov. Pawlenty and their state reps to express disapproval. Everyone should also write to their U.S. reps to express their support for our rights. The PPA letters are at http://capwiz.com/pokerplayersalliance/home/.
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04-29-2009, 12:46 PM
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#28
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Rich Muny - PPA Board VP
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Supporting the Daily Action Plan
Posts: 17,578
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Re: x-post from nvg- Minnesota blocking ISP's to internet sites
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanie
obv one of the reasons the Star Tribune is 150 million in debt. Nice fact checking!
I am so tired of hearing from the main stream media, especially newspapers and magazines that they are dying because of ebay, craigslist or google. You are dying because the information you have is often incorrect and of no use to people that are informed.
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The bad thing for us is that the DoJ tells everyone that online poker is unlawful federally and in all 50 states. Kentucky made a similar claim in the domain name case, and no doubt the State of Minn. told the Star-Tribune the same thing.
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04-29-2009, 12:53 PM
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#29
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old hand
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: BluffLand
Posts: 1,394
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Re: x-post from nvg- Minnesota blocking ISP's to internet sites
anything I can do to help I will. I am assuming you guys need money for this type of stuff, maybe I can do a fund raiser or something.
Match Beanie's money kind of deal.
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04-29-2009, 01:11 PM
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#30
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veteran
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: No Superusers
Posts: 2,802
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Re: x-post from nvg- Minnesota blocking ISP's to internet sites
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEngineer
I just communicated with Pappas on this issue. PPA is on it.
I recommend everyone in Minn. contact Gov. Pawlenty and their state reps to express disapproval. Everyone should also write to their U.S. reps to express their support for our rights. The PPA letters are at http://capwiz.com/pokerplayersalliance/home/.
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Is the PPA going to stand up for Minnesota poker players and litigate this ?
Telling players to write letters to Congress is fine, and a good way for DC lobbying to capitalize on this crisis, but is any direct action proposed to protect poker plauyers in Minnesota ?
As a substantive matter, is this 200 site list available for review ? Minnesota expects to expand it to "thousands of sites:
"Acknowledging the effort as an initial sample, Willems anticipates the program expanding to address thousands of sites, depending on compliance."
Is this action, based upon the Wire Act, open to challenge as to poker ? How about seeking a Declaratory judgment ?
Interestingly, the Minnesota stance seems to invite litigation, and a policy direction from DC:
“In Minnesota, and for Minnesotans, the primary issues are legality, state self-governance and accountability,” says Willems. “ In broader context, the long-running debate on online gambling continues to raise significant issues, including absence of policy and regulation, individual rights, societal impact, "
Someone might explain to Minnesota that in the US, if there is NO law against something, you ARE free to do it. In the "absence of policy or regulation", you ARE free to do it.
Last edited by TruePoker ex-CEO; 04-29-2009 at 01:20 PM.
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