We need a new alliance for poker players. If the PPA isn't willing to change its direction, then we need a whole new organization. I understand their hesitance to severe ties with Full Tilt and Pokerstars as these two sites have been fighting with the PPA for our rights to play online poker, but it is now obvious those two sites are toxic to the cause and attempts to regulate at the federal level are seemingly futile.

This new organization will be an alliance of poker players with the intention to align with casinos and lotteries to influence local and state level governments. We need to push every angle and set up as many intrastate systems as possible. The goal will be to set up many small intrastate systems which can someday be influenced to connect with other intrastate systems.

This alliance will also work to influence the new system in DC to help suggest ideas for improvement and profitability and players rights. It will also push for positive publicity about how people are gaming responsibly within their own district and how the city is seeing revenue from this.

This alliance will look for ways to lobby effectively in other local governments in the US by means of the lottery and casinos. If the lottery in DC can set up a poker site, then that same lottery probably has ties to other cities and should be able to effectively lobby their cause. In cities where casinos have a big influence, it is a no brainer to get them on board for an intrastate system ran by them. We could also argue effectively that areas with both lottery and casinos could benefit by allowing licensure for everyone for choice and competition for the consumer. We will fight the argument that an intrastate only system will only benefit by a monopoly by one casino or lottery entity. In any local setting, we need to fight to bring the gambling entities together instead of having some oppose just because they can't get a piece of the pie. We can also argue casinos will benefit because at their land based casino they can direct people to the online games served in the state or city, and if people find the online games they can be pointed toward promotions at the land based casino. Same goes for lotteries, they could set up a system where people buy their tickets online and also are able to play on that same site and anywhere tickets are sold people would be able to buy funds to be used for online play or cash in.

I realize in many local governments theres a lot of competing gaming interests, but we need to do everything we can to get them united behind this single cause for poker players and not alienate any possible alliance. That could be the one main problem of the PPA in the past, fighting so hard for the offshore companies could be seen as alienating the local gaming companies.

So the idea is to get a group that fights in every local district for intrastate poker. As these systems are put into place, then the debate for expansion to group markets together begins. This is obviously very complicated with all of the competing gaming interests but you need to start somewhere, and if it is complicated on the local level, then it is easy to see why its near impossible on the federal level.

While the PPA isn't perfect, I believe they're the best organization to help fight for our rights.



That being said, if you want to start a new lobby, I'll support you as well. The more people fighting for favorable poker legislation the better.

Go for it.

BTW, the PPA is not "tied" to these "toxic" sites.

The PPA wants players to have a place to play. AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

Shall we just ignore that the loss of the sites has created a situation in which no US person, including US persons who relied on their poker for their income, can play?

The point is not to get Stars or FTP back. The point is get back an ability to play, however that happens, and to get it ASAP.

Or should we just ignore this whole indictment thing and say "keep up the long and slow consideration of regulation Congress, really, take all the time you want, its no big deal that US citizens can no longer play."

Skallagrim

The PPA does a good job. There are historical and political reasons why black Friday was inevitable. The PPA tried hard to get the poker bill passed that would prevent it, even though the bill had provisions that very well could have made it hard for Stars and Tilt to continue their market dominance in the US.

People really need to stop assuming that the default position of our legal system is going to be unregulated offshore online poker. Gaming regulation has never worked like that, and people are asking the PPA to do the impossible.

why the **** are you trying to make the only legitimate group of people who can help us mad by this kind of propagandist bull****.

Can't believe the ignorance of some people. If you think you can start up a new organization that anyone with any kind of political pull will listen to for even a second good luck to you.

When will people understand the legal/political processes of their own country?

The PPA has done everything possible in the current legal/political system, in which any kind of change is purposefully an extremely difficult an slow process. In a way it's designed for your own protection so the morons like OP(or tea party) can't show up and turn everything upside down overnight. Sure, I wish it was possible when it comes to legalizing on line poker, but then there would be a ton of other laws passed after every new election that cater to special interests and screw your everyday subsistence... Not saying special interests have no influence, of course they do and way too much, but it's a slow process even for them with their huge recourses.

Ultimately, if there was no PPA, we would be in a far worse situation then we are in now. I think we are closer then ever to having legalized on line poker in US.

PPA is not representing the sites. There is not a word in the letters or action plan about defending the sites. Also, PPA does not take money directly from PS or FTP. Rather, a trade association -- the IGC -- contributes to the organization.

Also, walking away is easier said than done. This is an expensive fight. Imagine trying to fund an effort when every time there is a question about strategy, people make posts demanding a new organization?

First @ dstaj, my op wasn't propagandist nor should make the PPA mad. Following them for through the past decade, their approach has always been national and they haven't supported local bills, which made sense at the time because we had a status quo and they always thought we were getting traction.

@ the person I quoted, its arguable they haven't done everything possible. In my op I talk about how aligning with the offshore sites and not supporting local intrastate gaming has probably alienated local gaming interests. Also the last part of your reply, I think is quite absurd, how are we closer than ever to having legalized online poker? We just got shut out of the market in one swoop by the doj, and federal legislation has never shown any momentum. Tell me your plan to get past all the gaming interests lobbying against federal legislation, how to get past the house and the senate.

I'm still pro PPA and for them attempting federal legislation, however, how many decades are we going to wait? I just want another organization, a new alliance, that focuses specifically on the intrastate and local model to begin building up a base of online poker through lobbying with local gaming interests and getting them on board for intrastate models. Obviously a federal bill is preferred but method has failed every year since 2006.

If you read my op, I am clearly not calling for the existing PPA to disband or do anything different aside from possibly severe any ties with the offshore poker companies. I just want to see another strong group working on the intrastate model, mainly because something is better than nothing.

The PPA needs to sever all ties and distance themselves with these now indicted sites. That might mean changes to the board, and changes in the arguments. Whether real or imagined Our player organization can't been seen as advocating a position that might be seen as one of these now indicted sites.

IMO,As a lobbying group the PPA will need to make certain changes in order to be effective in lobbying whats best for the player in Congress and in the States.

What are IGC's monetary interests/backers?

If our interest is in being allowed to play -- as it should be -- then I think the fastest way to bring this to a head is to have a poker player sue the federal government in federal court for a declaration that running an internet poker business does not violate federal law. Once you get that judgment, then people may line up to start new sites.

I haven't done any research on it, and I'm sure there are potential problems regarding things like standing, but my gut tells me a compelling case can be presented that the case should be allowed to proceed. And if you can get to that point, perhaps too much discovery won't be necessary and a determination can be obtained relatively quickly, at least more quickly than in the criminal case brought in the SDNY. And we can pick the venue -- i.e., pick a court where there is favorable case law already in place, such as where the Mastercard decision was rendered (8th circuit?).

Perhaps those in the know more than me have already thought this through and decided it's not a good idea, I don't know.

Also time for me to be hypocritical, for those that think like me that think federal legislation is futile, we still need to use the momentum we have from all US players being shut out and still support the PPA. (I know I said I want to see a strong group pushing intrastate models, but right now our strongest effort is doing whats called in this action plan...

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...hread-1021812/

I personally will be making phone calls all day and so are tons of other players. I see why people responding thought my op was anti PPA but I don't think that way, I'm just worried of the ties we've had to the now indicted sites and the seemingly impossibility of getting federal legislation through. I want to support a strong group also pushing for intrastate models.

Even though I think the PPA does more good than bad, another organization can only help things.

I seriously do not see state government as the right place to look for poker regulation. Most state lotteries and casinos are designed to squeeze as much money out of the players as possible. If they look into poker we're likely to see situations where the rake is unbeatable and monopolies are government sanctioned. If you want to kill poker for good that's a great way to start.

IMO the PPA is on the right track. They are working on a federal level to fight for bills that keep player interests in mind. A federal bill would also likely create sites with far greater player pools that could actually sustain a decent amount of action at different levels of play. To me state legislation is the last resort and may put the nail in the coffin if we aren't extremely careful.

PPA has never aligned themselves with those sites, they aligned themselves with players that play on them, including you. The only affiliation between PPA and offshore sites is residual, due to the fact that you as a player they represent where playing on those sites.

Also, be happy they exist as a buffer between non offshore gaming interests and you as a player. As far as the plan getting past the gaming interests - there is no plan for that, the plan is to work as closely as possible with those interests to achieve what players want. As those same gaming interests are gonna be the ones providing you with all your on line poker options in this country. And it will happen sooner then you claim, imo.

The separate organization to lobby for intrastate iPoker has no purpose. PPA, on the other hand, can do as much as possible when it comes to protecting you as a player when or if those intrastate sites start running.