VERY IMPORTANT REPORT ON ONLINE POKER - MUST READ! - Page 3 - Poker Legislation

JasonInDallas · 11-20-2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willyoman

The Florida report cites Focus on the Family saying Internet poker is: "a highly invasive and reckless form of taxation dependent on human exploitation.”

What the ****? FoF is not a mainstream group; it's totally a fringe organization and doesn't belong in this report.

That's really messed up if they quoted FoF in the report, might as well balance it out and also quote NAMBLA and some Aztec fables while they're at it.

Self Made · 11-20-2009, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LetsGambool

Also, just want to note that the DOJ's "interpretation" is not supported by current case law, and in fact ignores the decisions on the subject. Wish one of these studies would point that out.

Also, the authors don't seem to believe in state's rights, and act as if states need the federal government's permission to do anything. Admittedly, that's the way states have acted WRT this issue in the past, but it's still frustrating.

**TheEngineer** · 11-20-2009, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LetsGambool

No. The PWC study does not do this. It does not do it at a state level and it does not take into account the substitution effect. Ive had this discussion before, relying on the PWC report is a huge mistake.

I agree that companies wishing to be licensed should conduct these studies. These studies are ultrastandard, and I wouldn't be surprised if one of the bigger US B&Ms wishing to get licensed has one in its hip pocket, ready to go.

PPA has paid for studies in the past. However, IMO a huge 50-state study is not something to which PPA ought to allocate resources. They have the PwC study, which is all anyone can expect from us.

Willyoman · 11-20-2009, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonInDallas

That's really messed up if they quoted FoF in the report, might as well balance it out and also quote NAMBLA and some Aztec fables while they're at it.

I mean... you're not that far off.

From Wikipedia:

Quote:

Focus on the Family is one of a number of evangelical parachurch organizations that rose to prominence in the 1980s. A component of the American Christian right, it is active in promoting interdenominational work toward its views on social conservative public policy.

I don't understand how an argument... and a ridiculously loaded quote... from this organization makes its way into this report. Is the FoF an expert on any facet of Internet gambling?

Meanwhile, the PwC data on federal tax dollars, which certainly talks to the magnitude of tax even if not to actual state data, is off limits? Regarding taxation, the report writes:

Quote:

Expanding authorized gambling in the state to include Internet gambling could generate revenue. However, at this time no objective estimates exist to assess potential state revenues.

So the FoF makes the cut regarding a policy discussion on Internet poker, while none of the available taxation studies from 3rd parties are quite good enough? And all they can say is that taxation "could" generate revenue? Can they make that language any weaker?

Meanwhile, there are no quotes from our side... or, to put it more accurately, there is no mention our side even exists. It was either extremely careless, which is certainly possible because not many people totally understand this issue; or it was quite deliberate, which I guess is also possible.

**PokerXanadu** · 11-21-2009, 12:18 AM

My response to the OPPAGA report:

Quote:

An Open Letter to Florida Lawmakers

I love the game of poker, as do many of my friends. Online poker gives me the opportunity to enjoy playing the game from the comfort of my home, for entertainment and relaxation. It is an important part of my life, as a challenging game where I have the opportunity to interact and compete with players from all over the world.

The Florida Office of Program Policy Analysis and Government Accountability (OPPAGA) has delivered their report about online poker to the Florida legislature, as authorized by HB425. The report lists three possible options for the State of Florida in response to the existence in Florida of unregulated online poker from offshore sites: wait and see if our federal Congress passes legislation to license and regulate online gambling; make online gambling expressly illegal in Florida; or pass Florida legislation to allow intrastate online poker by Florida licensed and regulated sites.

While a federal licensing program would provide protections for Florida citizens as well as revenues for our state, the process of passing a federal bill for this program is likely to advance slowly. This leaves online poker in Florida in a legal grey area, with no protections for the players. Even passing Florida legislation to explicitly outlaw it would not put a halt to the current situation where avid players in Florida continue to find ways to play at foreign sites without protections under state or federal regulation for fraud, underage participation and compulsive gaming.

The third option, to develop a Florida intrastate licensing program, will provide the protections that are needed for Florida’s citizens. However, the challenge is developing an intrastate program in a manner that will entice the many current players to participate by playing only at the Florida licensed poker sites. For an enjoyable experience, online poker players want to play on the most popular sites, which provide a variety of active games whenever they log on, and a large field of players from all over the world with which to compete. Players also benefit from the special rates, bonuses and promotions offered by competing sites – as in any industry, business competition benefits the consumer. It is unlikely that a majority of the current players will switch to intrastate licensed sites which don’t provide this experience, leaving the viability of this third option in question.

However, there is a way to develop a state licensing program which satisfies both the requirement to license and regulate only intrastate sites and to provide the competitive multi-national experience that players seek. Our licensed Florida cardrooms can be granted licenses to offer competing online pokerrooms to Florida residents. The cardrooms can be given the choice either to develop their own online pokerroom site, individually or in partnership with other Florida cardrooms; or to contract with one of the current offshore poker sites to provide Florida cardroom- branded software which allows only Florida players to register on the Florida site, but still offers the same game tables as their non-Florida poker sites, with participating players from all locations.

In the online poker industry, this is called a “poker room skin” with a "shared player base”. Such a system would allow the state to regulate and monitor the Florida online pokerrooms in order to provide the necessary protections for Florida citizens. Florida poker players would readily switch to these Florida pokerrooms as these sites would provide the same gaming experience that they love but with the added player protections as well as the comfort of knowing they are playing within the bounds of Florida law. The Florida cardrooms would benefit by bringing Florida online players back onshore to Florida businesses, who would share in the industry profits. And this licensing program would provide the opportunity for the State of Florida to bring in significant new revenues by assessing fees on the sites, similar to those proposed in the current federal bills.

Poker is a uniquely American pastime, born on the riverboats of the Mississippi and played by U.S. citizens at all levels of society, from factory workers to business executives to Presidents. To deny access to this great game on the most modern of mediums, the Internet, in the privacy of private homes, is to deny the principles of freedom which our founding fathers fought so hard to secure for all members of our great nation. Through a carefully crafted poker licensing bill which preserves access to international competition while ensuring the protections the game requires, the players, our Florida cardrooms and the State of Florida can all enjoy the benefits of intrastate, state-regulated, online pokerrooms.

Martin Shapiro
Florida State Director
Poker Players Alliance

LetsGambool · 11-21-2009, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEngineer

I agree that companies wishing to be licensed should conduct these studies. These studies are ultrastandard, and I wouldn't be surprised if one of the bigger US B&Ms wishing to get licensed has one in its hip pocket, ready to go.

PPA has paid for studies in the past. However, IMO a huge 50-state study is not something to which PPA ought to allocate resources. They have the PwC study, which is all anyone can expect from us.

Sure, that's a totally reasonable view. The studies need to get done though. In reference to the other thread currently milling about, if the foreign sites dont have this info ready by the time legislation actually is going to move I would question whether they have any desire to be regulated. Its ultrastandard, I completely agree.

Self Made · 11-22-2009, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerXanadu

My response to the OPPAGA report:

Lobbyists have a hand in drafting legislation all the time (from what I hear). It it possible we could draft something along these lines and get a friendly legislator to introduce it? It might help set an agenda/baseline for discussion at least.

Also, how about a low licensing threshhold, such as: if they're from a UK-whitelisted jurisdiction, they can have a skin in Florida. I worry about protectionism through over-regulation.

Jonaspublius · 11-24-2009, 11:58 AM

Right now I have locked up money for a move to Florida or Delaware, whichever gets their casinos in shape first. This study worries me a lot because I don't want to live in a state with a ****ed up online poker scene. I have seen calls for and threats of boycotts mentioned before and, frankly, were laughable. But, if the winners of protectionism/monopoly are the Florida poker rooms/Seminoles.............wouldn't a preemptive boycott or even a threat be enough to stall this? I know the state PPA there has a lot on its plate, but organizing a petition on this, and having members directly tell room managers they would take business elsewhere if Florida banned Stars/FTP have some impact? Maybe the threat of a live poker boycott isn't great, but flatly telling room managers you would reduce play and refuse to play on an exclusionary network might stall this enough to give federal legislation more time. Let them know the group organizing this does not represent you and the legislation would impact your business adversely.

DrewOnTilt · 11-25-2009, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonaspublius

Right now I have locked up money for a move to Florida or Delaware, whichever gets their casinos in shape first.

If Florida gets their online act together then I will seriously consider moving OUT of Delaware and heading south. DE is a semi-friendly-to-gambling state, at least in terms of B&M gambling activity. Both current Senators and our one Rep, though, have historically voted with the opposition in matters concerning online gambling. The Governor recently pushed for sports betting and got it approved, but opposition at the state legislature was fierce enough that the final approved bill legalized only a watered-down version of sports betting (all bets must be parlays).

DE is a dump, too, and the weather is generally crappy.

**PokerXanadu** · 11-25-2009, 06:42 AM

Good ideas, fellas. The Florida house committee over gambling issues is meeting the second week in December. We'll see if they have anything to say on the issue and then take it from there.