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| Poker Legislation Discussions of various poker-related laws and steps players can take to push for better laws. |
09-22-2009, 03:03 PM
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#1
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enthusiast
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 75
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Pro poker write offs
I will be filing as a pro this year on my tax returns and I am a little clueless as to what I can write off. I play online.
New computer?
High speed internet?
Apartment rent? (Because it would be my main place of business)
Health insurance?
Comfortable computer chair?
Student loan interest?(I read this somewhere....)
Accountant fees?
Half of the self employment tax?
Are these legit and can anyone name any others.......?
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09-22-2009, 03:12 PM
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#2
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,703
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Re: Pro poker write offs
Regarding four of the first five (all but health insurance) you should check out the IRS publication on home offices. The short answer is that some of the cost of these items can be written off as business expense, but probably not the full cost depending on your specific situation.
Accountant fees are a yes and would be the best place to get better and definitive answers to these questions than asking here.
1/2 of SE tax is a yes and IIRC there is a line specifically to do so on schedule C.
Not sure about student load interest, but I suspect this is a no. The actual education cost you incurred at the time you got the load might have been deductible at that time.
Also not certain about health insurance although I think this is a yes as a business expense. Check with your accountant.
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09-22-2009, 03:13 PM
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#3
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old hand
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Waiting A Long Time For The Beep
Posts: 1,302
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Re: Pro poker write offs
I don't know about the apartment rent, everything else yes I think.
You can add medical expenses, such as co-pays and deductibles, meals and entertainment (like if you talk strat with one of your buddies at dinner), and travel expenses if you go anywhere else to play live (mileage, airfare, hotel etc.).
You can also write-off any other gambling losses, like bets on games and bets at the golf course...you have to also claim your wins for these though. Just document everything and write-off liberally. It's better to have an auditor tell you later on that you can't deduct something than it is to be accused of having unclaimed income.
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09-22-2009, 03:35 PM
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#4
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 8,985
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Re: Pro poker write offs
TMK if the expense was exclusively used for your business, it can be deducted. If it had any other use, it may not.
There are tons of grey areas, and you can probably get by with writing off things like part of your high speed internet, computer costs, etc... (100% of them would be a little outlandish, unless they're dedicated to business).
You can also write off depreciation and financing costs on any "company" vehicles TMK (obv consult a professional).
My accountant last year was hesitant to allow me to write off a lot of the grey area costs (high speed internet, apartment rent, utilities, car interest) last year, but in the end we decided that at least some portion of them was legit to write off.
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09-22-2009, 10:00 PM
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#5
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enthusiast
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 75
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Re: Pro poker write offs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Six Finger Nate
I don't know about the apartment rent, everything else yes I think.
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But I would think since your primary place of business is your apartment shouldn't you at least be able to write off a portion of the rent. Say you use your bedroom 75% of the time and the living room/kitchen 25% of the time. I would think you should be able to deduct 75% of the total rent??????
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09-22-2009, 10:56 PM
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#6
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,703
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Re: Pro poker write offs
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan797s
But I would think since your primary place of business is your apartment shouldn't you at least be able to write off a portion of the rent. Say you use your bedroom 75% of the time and the living room/kitchen 25% of the time. I would think you should be able to deduct 75% of the total rent??????
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This is the reason for my answer referring you to the IRS publications on home business deductions. As in poker, it depends. IIRC writing off rent (or depreciation of your home) can be done. It's been 5 or 10 years since I was in this situation and they had been cracking down on what they allowed at that time. I believe the rule was that you could write off the rent in proportion to the portion of your home that was "used exclusively for business." I had a room in my office that I used exclusively (more or less  ) to operate my business so I wrote off rent based on the percentage of floor space for that room and a comparable percentage of the utilities. The rules may have changed since then.
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09-23-2009, 05:00 AM
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#7
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Rosarito
Posts: 7,126
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Re: Pro poker write offs
Speak with an accountant or tax pro that specializes in gambling. Every situation is different and I will never be able to figure out why people ask such important questions on a forum.
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09-23-2009, 05:03 AM
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#8
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old hand
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ayo for Yayo
Posts: 1,402
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Re: Pro poker write offs
wow writing off a portion of your home is so sick......
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09-23-2009, 05:30 AM
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#9
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White Knight of FL Poker
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,547
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Re: Pro poker write offs
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan797s
But I would think since your primary place of business is your apartment shouldn't you at least be able to write off a portion of the rent. Say you use your bedroom 75% of the time and the living room/kitchen 25% of the time. I would think you should be able to deduct 75% of the total rent??????
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The IRS wants you to dedicate a portion of your home to business use 100% of the time. That's what they mean by a home office. The deduction usually is based on the square footage percentage of your home that is dedicated to use as a home office.
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09-23-2009, 08:46 AM
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#10
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grinder
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sarasota, FL
Posts: 546
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Re: Pro poker write offs
As far as the home office deduction, keep in mind that this is not money you keep forever. While it does lower your taxes now it also lowers your basis in the home. So when you sell you have to recapture that - so what you're really saving is the time value of money and difference between ordinary and cap gains. I looked at this a few years ago, and it was so much trouble for such a little benefit that I (and my accountant) just decided to skip it. (Plus, many people say that the home office deduction is a red flag that increases your chances of an audit, but that may just be an old wives' tale.)
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09-23-2009, 10:35 AM
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#11
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,703
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Re: Pro poker write offs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhorson
As far as the home office deduction, keep in mind that this is not money you keep forever. While it does lower your taxes now it also lowers your basis in the home. So when you sell you have to recapture that - so what you're really saving is the time value of money and difference between ordinary and cap gains. I looked at this a few years ago, and it was so much trouble for such a little benefit that I (and my accountant) just decided to skip it. (Plus, many people say that the home office deduction is a red flag that increases your chances of an audit, but that may just be an old wives' tale.)
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If you own your home then what you are saying is how it works. Whether or not to take the depreciation deduction is going to depend on your specific situation and preferences. However OP rents which is a totally different situation. If his situation is such that deducting a portion of his rent is a valid deduction there is very little downside to doing so. I have also heard that the IRS is more likely to scrutinize home office deductions. If they are out of line as a portion of your income I believe this is more likely to be an issue.
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09-23-2009, 11:54 AM
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#12
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grinder
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sarasota, FL
Posts: 546
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Re: Pro poker write offs
[QUOTE=BigAlK;13320556 ...However OP rents...[/QUOTE]
Good point, I missed that.
If he's really going to do this though, OP should look into creating a single-member LLC and running everything through there on (IIRC) a Schedule C. We have a few rental homes, so we did that, and probably saves me 10K a year in all the expenses that we run through there, and on the depreciation on assets, etc. Technically it's not much more than I could otherwise deduct/depreciate on a 1040, but it makes it cleaner and more legitimate with a set of books. Although the paperwork is a nightmare to do if you try it yourself, so add $2000 or so a year for a good professional to do your taxes. In short, if you are really operating a business, lots of things that are germaine to it can be deducted (mileage, travel, etc.).
As you said though, OP needs to talk to a real accountant. The tax planning advice on a poker message board is probably on par with the sophistication of the stud8 game at your local H&R Block.
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09-23-2009, 12:26 PM
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#13
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enthusiast
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 75
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Re: Pro poker write offs
Yes I don't own a home I would be renting. The IRS website says to take the square foot percentage of your workspace room and divide it by the total percentage of your home/apartment. Which is why I'm curious to know if I were to get a studio(1 room) if I would be able to write off all rent.....I just ordered a book on the subject we will see what it says
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09-23-2009, 12:31 PM
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#14
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,703
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Re: Pro poker write offs
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan797s
Yes I don't own a home I would be renting. The IRS website says to take the square foot percentage of your workspace room and divide it by the total percentage of your home/apartment. Which is why I'm curious to know if I were to get a studio(1 room) if I would be able to write off all rent.....I just ordered a book on the subject we will see what it says
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The short answer is no, there is no way you'll be able to write off 100% of your rent in this situation because your "workspace room" isn't used exclusively for business. Possibly if you had a corner of the room set aside for your desk and this was used "exclusively for business" you might be okay using the area taken up by the desk and some of the empty space around it, but I'd check with a professional before doing so.
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09-23-2009, 09:44 PM
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#15
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veteran
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,694
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Re: Pro poker write offs
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan797s
Yes I don't own a home I would be renting. The IRS website says to take the square foot percentage of your workspace room and divide it by the total percentage of your home/apartment. Which is why I'm curious to know if I were to get a studio(1 room) if I would be able to write off all rent.....I just ordered a book on the subject we will see what it says
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Coomon sense would ditate that you couldn't write off the entire rent for a studio Apt. You must eat, sleep and relax in the room aswell
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