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| Poker Legislation Discussions of various poker-related laws and steps players can take to push for better laws. |
02-08-2012, 06:46 PM
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#541
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Livin' the dream as a Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 7,880
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Re: Judge Harold Lee indicted in AZ gambling probe Re: Ace High Card Room
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitzAgainstTyranny
Did i miss something?
Anything more here would probably require a lawyer.
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willbedone keeps posting (a) a broken link to the New Times Blog post, followed by (b) a rant about the tax man coming to get all the people who have "volunteer" employees and businesses who pretend to be retail gaming supply when 99% of their income comes from spreading live poker.
I'm not privy to why it keeps disappearing -- maybe they think he's quoting the entire article, but it's not my call or my business -- but it's come and gone 3-4 times now.
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02-09-2012, 05:33 AM
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#542
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old hand
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Thelessubetthemoreulose whenuwin.
Posts: 1,932
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Re: Judge Harold Lee indicted in AZ gambling probe Re: Ace High Card Room
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Palimax
Anyone taking bets on that getting posted a 3rd or 4th time, complete with broken link?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitzAgainstTyranny
Did i miss something?
Anything more here would probably require a lawyer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Palimax
willbedone keeps posting (a) a broken link to the New Times Blog post, followed by (b) a rant about the tax man coming to get all the people who have "volunteer" employees and businesses who pretend to be retail gaming supply when 99% of their income comes from spreading live poker.
I'm not privy to why it keeps disappearing -- maybe they think he's quoting the entire article, but it's not my call or my business -- but it's come and gone 3-4 times now.
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I dont get it either..i posted it first and that link STILL works...
Quote:
Originally Posted by UbinTook
Phoenix NewTimes Blog post:
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/val...and_outspo.php
Harold Lee, Ex-Judge and Outspoken Off-Reservation Gambling Advocate, Convicted of Three Felonies
A Maricopa County jury convicted Harold "Bud" Lee Jr. of three felony counts related to gambling on Friday, including conspiracy and illegal control of an enterprise.
The 68-year-old Lee, who once served as a Phoenix Justice of the Peace, was allowed to remain free from custody until his sentencing, now scheduled for March 7. Lee will be eligible for probation but also faces a possible prison term. We published a story back in April 2009 about Lee's mission in life--which has been to convince the world that Arizona's anti-gambling laws are lunacy.
Trouble for Lee was that he walked the walk, which led the state Attorney General's Office (under then-AG Terry Goddard) to secure a grand-jury conviction against the Phoenix man and two co-defendants, both of whom pleaded guilty earlier to reduced charges.
Poker rooms are against the law in Arizona, except at the 22 casinos on 15 Indian reservations, where a few hundred tables are in service night and day.
Arizona does permit "social gambling" outside of the Indian casinos, but only if no one other than the players collects money from a game, whether it is poker or anything else. It also is illegal for the "house" to charge an entry fee for a poker game off the reservations.
Not that the gendarmes are about to knock down the doors of an Elks club anytime soon, but Lee's "organization," the International Card and Player's Association, charged interested "card room" owners a starting fee of $5,000. In return, he issued a charter and a quasi-business plan for an off-reservation poker room, collecting (he told us) as much as 15 percent of the profits from said owners.
Lee told us for the story that he also made "a little money" from the $20 annual "membership fee" charged to every new poker player at one of his rooms. He claimed that more than a thousand people "joined" one of his onetime affiliates, the now-defunct Club Royale in Tucson.
Prosecutors from the AG's Office (assistant attorney general Todd Lawson tried the case) sought the indictments after agents from the Arizona Department of Gaming completed a lengthy investigation.
It apparently marked the first time in Arizona that authorities brought felony charges against individuals under the state's illegal gambling laws.
The indictments focus on illegal gambling that went on at the Ace High Card Room and Social Club in Surprise. That club is no longer is in business.
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02-09-2012, 12:07 PM
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#543
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Livin' the dream as a Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 7,880
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Re: Judge Harold Lee indicted in AZ gambling probe Re: Ace High Card Room
Quote:
Originally Posted by UbinTook
I dont get it either..i posted it first and that link STILL works...
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He keeps posting a diatribe about taxes after it. No idea where it disappears to. *shrug*
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02-19-2012, 04:32 AM
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#544
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banned
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 276
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Re: Judge Harold Lee indicted in AZ gambling probe Re: Ace High Card Room

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Palimax
He keeps posting a diatribe about taxes after it. No idea where it disappears to. *shrug*
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Attempted promotion gambling? 6 months probation? Are you kidding me?
Judge Lee on cross of 78 year old Michael Orlando: "Are you more pissed at me or the State for us being here today?"
Orlando: "oh, The State!"
That kinda comment as the State's witness gets you 18 months probation sans "attempted".
The best part? Defendant's have to pay back the Indian police for the ADG funds used to come off the res to investigate them.
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03-07-2012, 01:29 PM
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#545
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banned
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 276
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Re: Judge Harold Lee indicted in AZ gambling probe Re: Ace High Card Room
Ouch!!!
Convicted on three high felony counts related to cardrooms he sanctioned through the International Card and Game Players Association, Inc., Judge Lee was sentenced to...
Drum roll please....
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03-07-2012, 01:36 PM
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#546
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banned
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 276
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Re: Judge Harold Lee indicted in AZ gambling probe Re: Ace High Card Room
12 months of unsupervised probation? A gratis copy of his trial transcripts and a free lawyer for his appeal? That is...
If a mistrial isn't declared first... "Exhibit 25", one of only a couple defense exhibits allowed to be entered as evidence, has been "lost"?
Lee told the court at his sentencing today that he isnt so concerned about the lost exhibit, and would much prefer to go forward with the appeal process rather than start all over due to a mistrial.
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03-07-2012, 01:42 PM
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#547
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banned
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 276
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Re: Judge Harold Lee indicted in AZ gambling probe Re: Ace High Card Room
I am not holding my breath for the follow-up press releases.
Next up: The Nuts pleas and convictions
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03-07-2012, 01:42 PM
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#548
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Livin' the dream as a Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 7,880
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Re: Judge Harold Lee indicted in AZ gambling probe Re: Ace High Card Room
12 months of unsupervised probation is, frankly, crap.
Should be much longer, especially considering he was a judge (before he was a felon). We trust those in positions like that not to blatantly disregard the law when it suits them.
He's stupid to appeal considering the probation-only sentence - but how smart he is has never been much of a question.
I guess he gets to waste even more time and money (yours and mine) getting found guilty again and again and again.
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03-07-2012, 03:14 PM
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#549
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old hand
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pontiff of Poodles
Posts: 1,980
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Re: Judge Harold Lee indicted in AZ gambling probe Re: Ace High Card Room
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Palimax
12 months of unsupervised probation is, frankly, crap.
Should be much longer, especially considering he was a judge (before he was a felon). We trust those in positions like that not to blatantly disregard the law when it suits them.
He's stupid to appeal considering the probation-only sentence - but how smart he is has never been much of a question.
I guess he gets to waste even more time and money (yours and mine) getting found guilty again and again and again.
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Resisting urge to politard.
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03-07-2012, 03:25 PM
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#550
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Livin' the dream as a Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 7,880
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Re: Judge Harold Lee indicted in AZ gambling probe Re: Ace High Card Room
Well, sure, it seems it's always those in power...
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03-07-2012, 06:14 PM
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#551
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banned
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 276
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Re: Judge Harold Lee indicted in AZ gambling probe Re: Ace High Card Room
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Palimax
We trust those in positions like that not to blatantly disregard the law when it suits them.
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Sounds like the blatant abuse of power we have been stumping on about since the first Poker Memorandum of Understanding was signed, ceding exclusive Class III Jackpot Poker rights to the BIA gambling syndicate without any citizen comment, review or consideration!
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03-07-2012, 06:20 PM
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#552
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Livin' the dream as a Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 7,880
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Re: Judge Harold Lee indicted in AZ gambling probe Re: Ace High Card Room
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitzAgainstTyranny
Sounds like the blatant abuse of power we have been stumping on about since the first Poker Memorandum of Understanding was signed, ceding exclusive Class III Jackpot Poker rights to the BIA gambling syndicate without any citizen comment, review or consideration!
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Give it up.
Your guy got his jury trial and lost. He's guilty. He's a felon. Your side is wrong. His peers convicted him.
Let me know if you ever work to change the law instead of playing conspiracy theorist.
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03-07-2012, 07:58 PM
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#553
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banned
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 276
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Re: Judge Harold Lee indicted in AZ gambling probe Re: Ace High Card Room
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Palimax
Give it up.
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Give up on calling out Hypocrisy? Tyranny? Greed?
Give up on legitimizing professional poker "for the rest of us"?
Give up in Class I and Class II poker because Class III poker in a nearby quasi-nation-state with limited sovereignty is "good enough"? Maybe for you.
Give up attempting to explain the often confusing and myriad of tangled legal and historical facts about the sport of poker?
Give up on saying that the Poker Memorandum of Understanding is a conspiracy does not in and of itself make me a conspiracy theorist.
Give up trying to get people to look under the covers?
Give up on "our side" having our next "change the law" meeting with more elected legislative representatives next Tuesday?
But why bother telling you this? What do you have to offer to the poker movement besides a huge man crush on conflicted ADG substantive policy statements regarding poker?
Last edited by CitzAgainstTyranny; 03-07-2012 at 08:04 PM.
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03-08-2012, 03:22 AM
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#554
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Livin' the dream as a Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 7,880
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Re: Judge Harold Lee indicted in AZ gambling probe Re: Ace High Card Room
What "movement?"
Your movement is a bunch of room owners taking a rake in a variety of creative methods because the punishment for making money is trivial. You say say "sport of poker" until you're blue in the face, but the state doesn't care if it's sport or not. You can argue about Class I, II, or III gaming all you want, but none of what's allowed on the reservation makes what you want to do off the reservation any more or less legal. You can pretend there's some sort of BIA conspiracy, but that just makes you seem as kookie as Lee. There's no covers to look under. Arizona's law is simple, clear, and absolutely straightforward. What part of no benefit do you need explained for the thousandth time? Change the law if you don't like it. There's a simple, clear referendum process in this state.
Write a proposed legislative change and get 10,000 signatures.
You're welcome. It's obvious that you don't want to do that, since it's the simplest route by a mile.
Lee's plan is clearly working out so well.
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03-08-2012, 05:01 AM
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#555
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old hand
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Thelessubetthemoreulose whenuwin.
Posts: 1,932
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Re: Judge Harold Lee indicted in AZ gambling probe Re: Ace High Card Room
There was an article about the conviction ion of the casino industry business publications i saw at work tonight that stated that judge Lee got 18 months( not 12) probation. It also stated the Lee and the other defendants were on the hook for the cost of the entire operation leading up to the conviction, a restitution figure i would imagine is pretty substantial.
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