Despite how the other thread evolved, I do think its worthwhile to have a thread to discuss what players can do to fight the WA poker law.

If anyone has ideas of how to increase player engagement and aid a legislative battle or set the ground for a 2012 initiative, lets post it here.

My thought is for players to all be requesting face to face meetings with their lawmakers on the subject of online poker. This will be needed should the PPA get legislation introduced, and will also help in the case of a Federal bill passing where WA will have to choose whether to opt in or not. Many people are ignorant in relation to online poker, and face to face educational meetings can be very helpful.

Where I think the PPA can help is
--sending out a blast suggesting this to their player base and recruiting players.
--Suggesting talking points, and maybe sending out a template, for players to use when contacting their Senators and reps.
--They can also be helpful as a clearinghouse...Senators and reps time is valuable. If the PPA can figure out who in which district is willing to meet with legislators and assist players in coordinating meetings
--Providing supporting material and coaching for players to bring to meeting with Senators.
--Setting goals for the WA player base to meet with xxxx number of Senators, perhaps organizing a tournament for those players that visit a Senator with either a pro guest appearance, prize donated etc. This would also provide a place for dedicated players to meet and share best practices.

Thoughts or suggestions?

A start would be to contact everybody that posted in the "Washington...." threads in this forum , The PPa and the Zoo...Gather names , contact info and location..The posters in those threads should be the most willing to get something moving...

Sign me up. 42nd district in Whatcom County.

Senator Doug Ericksen R
Rep. Vincent Buys R
Rep. Jason Overstreet R

The pen is truly mightier than the sword. A good way to fight back is to write columns, post to news sites, host podcasts and radio shows, and anything else to spread our opinion via media. You all know of my column at http://biggovernment.com/rmuny and Rob Chapman's Louisville radio show, so it's surely something we can all do.

Yeah TE, the PPA has members doing a good job with that. Im more interested in coming up with ways to improve what we are doing and think going to see legislators face to face would be a good augmentation. I cant reach WA players as effectively as the PPA can as I dont have the same player list.

Anyone can visit a lawmaker. However, without the hard behind-the scenes work to set the zeitgeist in our favor, quite a few of them will look at us like we're a fringe group (like tax protesters or something). That's how it was on my first trip to D.C., in fact.

IMO, that's the greatest need in WA right now.

What behind the scenes work? Can you elaborate on what Lee is doing and how we can help?

The first thing that is needed is a clear message and reason why this law should be overturned. lawmakers and the general public will need a good reason before they decide to change it, either by legislation or initiative, and just "because" isn't a reason.

Maybe getting the penalty changed form a felony to a misdemeanor might be doable but that wouldn't likely bring back the sites. The problem is there is no "good" or great reasons to tell lawmakers why the law should be overturned. It may be easier to try and pass an intrastate online poker bill then overturning the 2006 law.

WA state gains nothing by overturning the 2006 law. Why should they care if WA residents can't play on foreign sites. We need to come up with better arguments then. Please overturn this law so I can play on sites that the FBI considers Illegal organization far worse then the Mob. Who illegally processes money, money launders, may be involved in the illicit movement of funds for international drug cartels and/or terr0rists. Sites which will operate under no law,regulation or oversight in anyway by the state of WA or the US gov, pay no taxes, and have no consumer protections.

That sounds like a wining argument as to why the law should be overturned

We need to find an argument, one that will have financial benefits for the people of WA (taxes?) or it's going to be near impossible to get this law overturned.

nova,

I like your thinking here. IMO the tax revenue stream is a good approach.

When I got my local rep on the phone I took the time to tell them my story. It felt like it was a good approach. I posted this in another thread last year when everything first hit the fan. I will look around and see if I can find it so I can repost it here.

I haven't had the time/energy/dedication to devote to this cause over the past month, but I'm ready to start making waves as much as I can.

I posted this over a month ago:LINK

Update from when I originally posted this:

Rep. Linville got voted out of office. She was replaced by Vincent Buys (R). I got a call back from him after calling his office. I'm confident I will be in contact with him via phone sooner than later. I'm really hoping I can get a face to face meeting.

No dice with in attempting to contact Sen. Ericksen (R). No email replies. No phone replies, but I'm not ready to give up on him. Hopefully persistence will pay off.

The death of Full Tilt in Washington state has completely shut down my game. I haven't seen a flop since November. I still haven't received my last cashout from Full Tilt. Its been nearly three months. That adventure has been chronicled here.

I totally agree. The lottery brings in lots of money for education. Wouldn't it make sense for online poker to do the same?

I really do not understand where you are coming from. We gain nothing by over turning an unjust law? Really?

A law should not have to have a financial benefit for the state to pass it. This is what is wrong with our country this kind of thinking. Lets make something criminal because it does not have a tax on it for the state?
Who are you to decide what I can and can not do. Especially when it has no effect on you.

The terrorist and money laundering argument really?
The people in this state do not think like this.

The simple reason it should be over turned is that it is an unjust and stupid law that was passed for no other reason than greed.

Most of the legislature that voted on it did not even know what was in it and when asked if they would vote the same way again said no.

What happened to doing what was right?

That is your opinion.

Suppose I say internet gambling is unregulated and harmful to children. It is a just and righteous law.

You've got to do better to convince a politician vote against the interests of a very powerful lobby.

johncan, I'm not the one that needs to be convinced, it's the lawmakers and the people of WA that need convincing. It's going to be very hard to get this law chanced, it's not going to be as easy as some people think it is. We need better arguments, simply saying "its the right thing to do" may not be enough.

We can call the the law unjust all we want but it was passed by the WA legislature and upheld by the states highest court. So it's not going to be easy to get this law overturned. If it was easy, it would have happened already or the law wouldn't have passed in the first place. There is no big protest (like in Egypt)by the people against this law,there's been no protests calling for the heads of those in power in WA.

All I'm saying is it's not going to be easy, and we need to think outside the box like our opponents do. People shouldn't think this is a slam dunk or a done deal. Lawmakers and the general public need to be convinced this is a bad law and it needs to be changed. Simply saying its a stupid law isn't enough esp. when the courts have upheld the law. The odds are this law isn't going to be changed if all we have is "we want to play online poker' at what is considered by those in power to be illegal sites.

Everyone In WA should contact their state reps. like FBGHooper has done and Post all replies ITT. It will give us a starting point and some idea where the lawmakers stand and what their concerns may be, allowing WA players to better hone their message to the legislature. Then if/when a bill is proposed WA players will be better able to help push any bill along with the help of the PPA.

The reverse argument to that is what happens if the government decides to start prosecuting people for this.

Do you want your child's life ruined for playing online poker. I know that I would not want my child saddled with a felony conviction over playing online poker.

Actually, an individual being arrested and charged with violating RCW 9.46.240 would be one of the best ways to expose the injustice of the law.

Any volunteers?

I think the argument that it is unjust is enough, but that is my opinion.

I think it has already been stated that most lawmakers were duped by the go pump gas lady. I am still shocked at what happened in the court system.


I do not think the people need convincing to be honesty. A large percentage of the voting population lives in the Sound area and it leans very liberal/libertarian.

Some examples of the forward thinking in this area are.
Seattle hosts the largest Hemp festival in the world yearly.
In all likelihood legalization of marijuana for anyone over 18 will be on the ballot in Nov. via initiative. Whether or not it will pass is yet to be determined.
Very strong gay and lesbian presence in the Seattle area (out and proud, pride week, etc) The rainbow flag was flown from the top of the space needle last year.
Naked bike rides.

I am not saying that I support these things just that is what is going on out here.


There is a very strong preference in the area of a live and let live attitude.

This coincides with if they want to play poker let them.


I think your right that we need to keep contacting are state reps. I contacted a few of mine in the past and got a response back that one wanted to talk via phone. I never heard back so I fallowed up with a phone call of my own and left a message. I am still waiting to hear back.

I will keep contacting my reps it is the least I can do. What else can we do? I am willing to do more.

Injustice really pisses me off and treating online poker players as if they are felons just rubs me the wrong way.

The foundational work.

We won't win by beating lawmakers in debates. Rather, we'll win by getting our opinion in the public sphere such that it's seen as the majority view. That's hard work, but that's what it takes.

I'm not so sure I agree with this. Having a view be the majority opinion isn't enough, and is no guarantee of legislation. I feel confident suggesting that marijuana use being legal is a majority view. Its not something that's for me, but I'm certainly not in favor of a law against it. Is it an outrageous statement to suggest that a majority would be in favor of regulating and taxing marijuana use?

It didn't prevail in the CA initiative.

That being said, you illustrated my point well here. If legislators thought >80% of the public wanted to ban marijuana, convincing them to support legalization would be an uphill battle to say the least. Likewise, if people in media believed the public strongly supported bans on marijuana, their reporting on the issue would surely reflect that. In that environment, going into lawmakers offices and hoping to out-debate them surely wouldn't be an effective way to get them to back marijuana legalization.

Demonstrating public support for our position is a necessary precondition to getting the support of lawmakers.

OK, so then wouldnt getting a couple hundred poker players to go visit lawmakers face to face help that?

I find it a little bit funny that the PPA says players in WA havent gotten involved enough, but wont try and support an effort to get them more involved?

Yes, it would help a lot. My point is that we need more than just that.

You started this thread to ask what work needs to be done to fight the law. I replied to that question with what I see as some work that needs to be done.

What are you talking about? PPA supports all efforts to get players more involved.

TE, earlier in the thread you stated that players going to see lawmakers would be looked upon like a fringe group. That sounded to me like you didnt really think players should be doing that. Plus the PPA doesnt seem to have any interest in helping to organize such a push, or anything to get WA players that want to get more involved more ways to do so.

We absolutely need more than just that. Im sure the PPA wants players more involved, but the organization is, frankly, not effective at grassroots. There is currently essentially no organized effort in WA, a state which the PPA listed as a top priority for 2011. Lee Rousso hasnt posted here in almost two years and, despite the PPA's reliance on social media and the internet, there is AFAIK not even a website dedicated to fighting the WA law. There are three threads full of players in WA saying "What can I do to help", and I have people PMng me from WA saying "Id love to get involved, but I feel like I dont have the tools to do more for the cause".

Grasshopper in particular has given some great advice, IMO, as to how to build up a real grassroots effort. I hope the PPA takes it to heart in WA and elsewhere. A wise man once told me "trust in God, all others bring data" or something along those lines. The data so far for the PPA is this: zero pro-poker laws passed at either the state or Federal level. The way to change that data is certainly not for people like you and Skall to work harder. It needs to come from the player base, but the player base needs an organization to help players that want to take the initiative to fight back. Right now, in most states, the PPA is not that.

Now, players can certainly take the initiative to form their own organization outside of the PPA and fight back. WA players are currently trying to do just that with zero PPA support. I dont see why the PPA shouldnt be the home for grassroot efforts given their lobbying and litigation efforts and player mailing list. Just doesnt seem like the organization wants to head in that direction though. Hope that the lobbyists and social media campaign can get the job done on their own, but we have a tough fight here and that seems like its going to be tough.