France Approves Bill to Make Online Poker Legal,BUT - Poker Legislation

novahunterpa · 10-14-2009, 03:36 PM

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news...ne-poker-legal

Quote:

The French parliament has approved a bill to regulate and lealize online gambling, including online poker. The new law is expected to come into force next year, and up to 100 operators are expected to apply for licenses.

Looks like many countries are legalizing online poker and gambling but are taking a more protectionist approach.

Quote:

In an unexpected twist, an amendment was added to the bill which stipulated that any company wishing to apply for a license must close their current French player accounts for six months before they can be licensed.

Another amendment means that only those online gambling operators that do not have subsidiaries or operations in tax havens (such as Gibraltar) can be considered for a license.

These stipulations will make it difficult for companies such as PartyPoker.com and bwin to enter the market and have come in for considerable criticism from within the gaming industry.

I thought that in the EU they had to allow a more open access to online gambling sites but after what happened in Italy and now the French bill it doesn't look that way.

**TheEngineer** · 10-14-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by novahunterpa

In an unexpected twist, an amendment was added to the bill which stipulated that any company wishing to apply for a license must close their current French player accounts for six months before they can be licensed.

The Frank bill does the same thing. Changes are being sought, of course.

pianospike · 10-14-2009, 04:23 PM

"Online poker will be taxed at 2 percent under the new regime."

2% of what, exactly?

novahunterpa · 10-14-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEngineer

The Frank bill does the same thing. Changes are being sought, of course.

Yes but this French bill goes beyond the frank bill and includes this:

Quote:

Another amendment means that only those online gambling operators that do not have subsidiaries or operations in tax havens (such as Gibraltar) can be considered for a license.

These stipulations will make it difficult for companies such as PartyPoker.com and bwin to enter the market and have come in for considerable criticism from within the gaming industry.

http://www.gamingintelligence.com/in...ne-gaming-bill

Quote:

As the vote got underway, the Remote Gambling Association expressed its regret that the French Gambling Bill in its current form will fail to achieve any of its stated objectives.

The RGA said the proposed regulatory and taxation regime “will be wholly unattractive and in
most cases completely unviable” for private sector online gambling companies, while cautioning that even further restrictions may be introduced into the bill as it progresses towards enactment.

“In its current form, the planned French legislation will simply not be viable for the vast majority of private sector operators and France will miss out on the opportunity to share in the growth and associated benefits of having its own thriving, regulated online gambling industry,” said RGA Chief Executive, Clive Hawkswood. “It also runs the risk of further challenges at EU level because the level of restrictions are such that they could be considered unacceptable barriers to market entry.”

JPFisher55 · 10-14-2009, 05:02 PM

This law is why I believe that eventually online gambling sites will have to become privately held and ignore these laws while operating from so-called tax haven jurisdictions. I would prefer good licensing laws, but all the ones that I read are protectionist, or worse. Eventually most online poker sites will ignore US and all EU laws and accept all players who can deposit on their sites. IMO, most EU countries will not adopt UIGEA type laws, censure the Internet or really try hard to prevent their citizens from playing where they desire; even the US will eventually give up attempting to prevent US citizens from gambling online.

tangled · 10-14-2009, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFisher55

This law is why I believe that eventually online gambling sites will have to become privately held and ignore these laws while operating from so-called tax haven jurisdictions. I would prefer good licensing laws, but all the ones that I read are protectionist, or worse. Eventually most online poker sites will ignore US and all EU laws and accept all players who can deposit on their sites. IMO, most EU countries will not adopt UIGEA type laws, censure the Internet or really try hard to prevent their citizens from playing where they desire; even the US will eventually give up attempting to prevent US citizens from gambling online.

sure hope you're right.

novahunterpa · 10-14-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFisher55

This law is why I believe that eventually online gambling sites will have to become privately held and ignore these laws while operating from so-called tax haven jurisdictions. I would prefer good licensing laws, but all the ones that I read are protectionist, or worse. Eventually most online poker sites will ignore US and all EU laws and accept all players who can deposit on their sites. IMO, most EU countries will not adopt UIGEA type laws, censure the Internet or really try hard to prevent their citizens from playing where they desire; even the US will eventually give up attempting to prevent US citizens from gambling online.

I think you maybe right.

Quote:

IMO, most EU countries will not adopt UIGEA type laws, censure the Internet or really try hard to prevent their citizens from playing where they desire; even the US will eventually give up attempting to prevent US citizens from gambling online.

And to this point I agree as well in fact didn't France for years go after online sites as or more aggressively then the US.

LetsGambool · 10-14-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEngineer

The Frank bill does the same thing. Changes are being sought, of course.

Wait really, so under the Frank bill we arent supposed to play for six months? Ugh.

Skallagrim · 10-14-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LetsGambool

Wait really, so under the Frank bill we arent supposed to play for six months? Ugh.

Not exactly right, but close. There is no "6 month waiting period" explicit in the Frank bill. But UNLIKE THE MENENDEZ BILL, there is also no grace period for sites to continue operations while waiting to get a license. So once the law goes into effect, every site wanting a license would have to stop taking US players until they get one.

Few think that was an intentional result of the Frank bill, so it should be easy to fix, just like it was fixed in the Menendez bill.

Skallagrim

LetsGambool · 10-14-2009, 07:49 PM

Ah, makes sense, thanks.

novahunterpa · 10-14-2009, 08:07 PM

I guess this can be a positive for those in the EU

http://www.onlinecasinoadvisory.com/...edom-43346.htm

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Citizens Petition EU Against State Online Casino Bans

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One of the features of the Lisbon Treaty, the reform of European Union rules, is the right to petition by residents to the European Commission. As the treaty awaits only the approval of the Czech Republic for ratification, the first use of petitioning is already underway, as signatures are gathered to protest state betting monopolies which block access to foreign online casinos.

The gambling protest needs one million signers to be advanced to the EC. The document asks the EC to enforce free trade regulations on countries trying to maintain gaming monopolies and to restrict licensed Internet casinos from other EU countries.

Quote:

"Betting fans in Europe are fed up of being told by politicians how and where they can bet," said Right2Bet spokesman Michael Robb. "It's perhaps a sign of the Internet age that, through online petitions like our own, we can mobilize and unite consumers from across the continent for a common goal and really make EU politicians sit up and take notice."

Chomp · 10-14-2009, 09:20 PM

Thanks for that...the petition that article refers to appears to be this one:

http://www.right2bet.net/

9,100 signatories so far. So if they're looking for a million there's a hell of a long way to go!

This Euro crackdown is bloody bull****. While I still see Italians at iPoker, when I think of the number of Italian fish who are now at .it sites instead of the .com ones it makes me feel very, very sad.

I also think that these country-specific versions of poker sites are likely to be the future. For example, since all the major Euro sites (as far as I know) are based in tax-havens, the sites' only option to circumvent this French law will be to keep their main businesses separate and simply open a French-only version based in France. It would not make sense to leave the tax haven just to please France, so a separate French entity is the logical solution.

This country-specific model also provides an easy way for governments to collect revenue while paying lip service to their public health arguments and all whilst not giving the impression they are infringing personal rights. A perfect win-win-win situation from their POV. Really, really bloody depressing. I hope to God something happens to blow this crap out of the water, but I just don't see it.

Ed: Hmmmm, thinking again, I guess there is some hope that there will be EU-wide sites (as opposed to country-specific ones) based in low tax countries like Ireland or in Eastern Europe. Certainly it sounds like a much more EU approach than every-man-for-himself. But of course an EU-wide site won't help us Euros when the UIGEA is abandoned and all the American fish return!!

novahunterpa · 10-14-2009, 09:38 PM

If most/many of the big countries in the world (US/EU) go the country specific route or even limiting international sites then we have trouble. In this environment FT/PS wont last long, (unless the get the licenses) If countries only allow advertising and play on approved sites even if FT/PS,ect will go around these laws but eventually most of the new players would end up on approved sites and the other sites would die off. If enough countries limit sites, the "illegal" sites that are left out of the regulations will die, if only a small % of countries do this then the "illegal" sites might even thrive.

hitthedeck · 10-15-2009, 07:11 PM

If i get this right, under this law, Pokerstars would be allowed to get a license as Isle of Man is not a tax haven (it dont have certain taxes as far as wikipedia speaks).

My question is, will the license be for PokerStars.com - which would be good cos finally pokerstars would have EU license or it'll be like .IT and people outside france wont have access to "new" pokerstars.fr - now this would be terrible. SO which one is it ?

novahunterpa · 10-15-2009, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitthedeck

If i get this right, under this law, Pokerstars would be allowed to get a license as Isle of Man is not a tax haven (it dont have certain taxes as far as wikipedia speaks).

My question is, will the license be for PokerStars.com - which would be good cos finally pokerstars would have EU license or it'll be like .IT and people outside france wont have access to "new" pokerstars.fr - now this would be terrible. SO which one is it ?

I don't really know, I guess it depends on if this "law" is accepted by the EU and adopted by the French Gov. Even if this becomes the French law I don't really know how their system works(I live in US) I think it would depend on the Gov of France how they will go about licensing sites. They may consider the Isle of Man a tax haven they may not I don't know.