Here are some articles that explain the significance of the Florida online poker study that was mandated by the passage of HB425:

http://www.gamblingsmarts.com/blog/i...unshine-state/

http://www.fullgamblinginflorida.com/4.html

http://www.holdemreview.com/blog/pok...in-team-ab/348

The lobbyist behind this study is the same one that has been pushing legalized online gambling in California.

I'm not sure what the final result will be for Florida, but I'm pretty skeptical. Right now, there isn't any Florida law that makes it illegal for citizens to play poker online. The enactment of a bill to license and regulate "intrastate" online poker, the eventual desired outcome of this study bill, has several implications:

1. It will be illegal for offshore internet poker sites (PokerStars, Full Tilt, etc.) to offer poker to Florida residents.

2. Only intrastate sites will be licensed. In other words, only sites that offer play exclusively to Florida residents - sites that don't exist yet - will be legal in Florida.

3. Online poker sites will be taxed by the state. This will on top of eventual Federal taxation once Federal regulation gets passed. No doubt the costs of these taxes will be passed on the consumers (us players).

I wonder who is funding the lobbying for this legislation in Florida. Could it be the Seminole tribe?

That wouldn't surprise me. If you say the lobbyist pushing the Florida bill is the same one as in Cali, I know the Cali lobbyist used to be the lobbyist for the Indian gaming concerns there. I don't like these intrastate efforts at all either.

I agree. I think this is a undercover move by the Seminoles to try to get in on the action of online gaming by dangling the carrot of more tax revenue at Crist.

FL government is telling you that they will study enacting a new law that would authorize poker sites. This process is similar to the way they authorized B&M card rooms. They mention the 'existing and unregulated' sites in the bill. So FL just told you the current poker sites are unlawful, unauthorized and unregulated. If you don't agree, where are they wrong and what makes sites lawful?

And that would be more than the ZERO licensed FL sites now... and we don't know that existing unlicensed sites couldn't get a license there... and wouldn't any licensed site be better than having NO sites if the current sites leave?

There is no need for a Fed tax if Fed enabling regulation is passed.

Think of a similar situation. Some states make horse racing betting lawful... if there is any tax on the horse racing people contained in their Fed interstate enabling regulation, I don't know of it. Why would we need/want a new Fed tax for poker sites? I don't.

There is no current law in Florida that makes playing online poker, or offering online poker to Florida residents from outside Florida, unlawful. Without any such law on the books, these activities are currently lawful.

The legislation that will be coming out of this study will be for licensing "intrastate" online poker sites only. This means poker sites that operate in Florida and offer accounts only to Florida residents. To verify this, check out the legislation that is being pushed in California. The same folks are behind the California push - Jim Tabilio and his Poker Voters of America. A good place to read more is his web site: www.pokervorters.com . Aftere several states adopt similar legislation, we may see interstate compacts that allow multi-state poker sites, similar to the way there are now compacts for multi-state lotteries. But we'll never see foreign-based sites like PokerStars and Full Tilt given state licensing. We might see such sites get a license and set up their own separate state-based site, but once again it would be for just residents within the state - you wouldn't be playing with players from any other location.

You won't see Federal regulation without a Federal tax. They go hand in hand. There was a Federal taxation bill introduced as a companion to the regulation bill (both sponsored by Barney Frank). You can bet that the final form of any bill that is passed for Federal licensing and regulation will either include taxation, or be passed in tandem with a bill for taxation. I have am not opposing Federal taxation. But we don't need state licensing, regulation and taxation in addition to the Federal. The Federal legislation will allow foreign-based companies to be licensed. The state legislation won't, and will exclude all sites that don't have state licensing even if they have federal licensing, as far as I can tell.

I have written to Jim Tabilio to find out more details about what form he intends the final Florida legislation to take (he is behind this Florida legislation, not the "FL government", by the way). I'm pretty sure I am right in my assessments of his intentions, but I am giving him the chance to correct me.

Also, Tabilio is a political analyst and lobbyist by trade, not a poker advocate. His poker advocacy must be funded by someone - reportedly by the Indian tribes for his California legislation. I suspect that same thing applies here in Florida, i.e. the Seminoles want the legislation to gain a virtual monopoly of legal online poker for Florida residents, and are funding Tabilio's efforts. I have asked him to provide a list of his Board of Directors of Poker Voters of America, which is supposedly a non-profit organization. It will be interesting to see who is on the board, or if he declines to provide that information, a good indication that things aren't all they seem to be.

Found a little bit more of a trail about Poker Voters of America. The State of California has Barry Fadem listed as the agent for PVOA. A search turned up this info about him:

Also, he is President of National Popular Vote (www.nationalpopularvote.com) which is pushing legislation to reform the national electoral college:

First off, thanks PX for all you're doing on this.

Now for my stupid questions.

That first article you linked makes statements like:
Is 'legalize' different from 'no law deems it illegal therefore it's legal'? Why do they need to 'legalize' something that's already legal?

And regarding requiring the online cardrooms to operate in Florida and for Florida residents only; isn't there some sort of commerce law(s) such that they can't prevent an out-of-state (or country) company from providing the same service that an in-state company does? Sort of like the Antigua vs. US WTO thing?

I dunno the effect of online cardrooms in Florida but as long as Florida has the retarded low buy-in/small bet BS we have then it's just not a fair comparison. I live in Florida and almost never play live because I'm not gonna drive an hour each way to play the ****ty structure and pay more rake when I can play with a much better structure and less rake online. If they had decent stakes/etc. at the B&M Florida cardrooms I'd be MUCH more inclined to go. As it is now the thought of playing live here just doesn't even cross my mind.

Oh Riiiightt... that's why FL is studying whether to enact a new law to authorize Florida's first lawful poker sites!?!?

If it's lawful in FL, where is the law written? Is it in the same area that has laws making FL B&M poker rooms legal? Can anyone open a site? Maybe you are saying that B&M rooms have to have a FL law but a poker site operating in FL does not need a law? (BTW, FL does know that what you do in FL is FL 'activity'. If you don't agree that they have jurisdiction, and that is the basis for your argument, tell me why.)

Is horse racing legal in FL? Do they have a Fed license and license tax? Do other states have lawful racing? Do FL and other states only bet intrastate? Why would poker sites need a Fed tax and license?

Look, you seem very bright and you need to rethink what FL just told you... they just restated that you need a FL law and FL license to deal online poker in FL. Barney can't help there. You can have file drawers full of Fed licenses, FL won't be impressed.

You are just plain old wrong about this. Do some research.

The article writers just use "legalize" as a catch-all phrase for the uninformed. One obviously doesn't need to legalize an activity that has not yet been made illegal. But it makes a good sound bite.

Good question. I'm not sure, but there are some discussions of these issues on the thread about "legalization" of online poker in California:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...update-518133/

Here is the full text from HB425 of the section calling for a study of online poker. Note that there is nothing in the wording which mentions "legalize", "illegal" or such.

And if its unlawful where is that written. Your logic is flawed beyond description

Yesterday I skipped down to my mailbox and did 10 jumping jacks before getting my mail.

When I got home, I studied Florida law a bit. Much to my astonishment, there was no law on the books allowing me to do the above activities. I guess that makes doing jumping jacks at the mailbox illegal.

Thank goodness I didn't get arrested for that.

Nice logic.

I have mostly been pointing to what FL is telling you, and they are saying that existing FL law controls gambling activity in FL. They don't like sites operating in FL, w/o FL licenses and will study adding new law.

If you don't agree that FL has that power and exercises it, thereby trying to limit lawful gambling activity to lawful FL licensed businesses, then tell me where I can research the well-hidden facts about how it's a free-for-all in online-poker-friendly-anything-goes Florida.

No, here is what you said:

And you keep insisting that existing sites are "unlawful". This is not true. There is no Florida law currently that makes them unlawful.

Of course, they are studying online poker in order to make a new law that would specify how sites that offer online poker will be licensed and regulated, thus making un-licensed sites unlawful. That has been the main point of my posts from the beginning - that this new "study" will likely eventually make the poker sites we now love and use illegal in Florida.

And by the way, it isn't "FL" or "FL government" that is behind this. It is Jim Tabilio and his Poker Voters of America organization. I've been trying to find out who is behind him, i.e. funding his lobbying here in Florida, but haven't been able to so far. It is most likely the Seminole Tribe, just as it has been the Indian tribes in California that have been funding his poker legislation efforts there.

The whole point I am trying to make is this: There was legislation quietly passed in Florida to "study" online poker. The plan behind this is to eventually license and regulate poker on a state level. This will likely be BAD for poker players compared to what we have now, and what we will have available to us with the coming Federal licensing and regulation alone.

We should route out the real motivations behind HB425, and oppose passage of the coming legislation if that is the reality of it.