Florida New Poker Limits - SB 788. - Page 6 - Poker Legislation

bigslickmark · 06-12-2009, 05:55 PM

I think this is just posturing by the Seminoles. They will sign the compact.

http://cbs4.com/wireapnewsfl/Seminol...2.1041992.html

They can't afford to take a chance of not signing it. Also Charlie Crist will not be the governor next year. He is the most pro-gaming gov we have had. If some idiot like Bill Mccollum becomes the next governor we may lose all the gambling rights we have gained with Crist. I think Barry Richard's statement was only a bluff but at the end of the day they want to make a deal and wrap this up.

parisron · 06-12-2009, 06:13 PM

"Seminole attorney: State may have to alter gaming compact"

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/jun...r-gaming-comp/

parisron · 06-12-2009, 09:01 PM

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-gamb...7677971.column

**PokerXanadu** · 06-13-2009, 07:01 AM

Seems to me that it's still 50/50 whether or not the Tribe will accept the new compact.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localne...oles_0613.html

Quote:

"The legislation that we passed was not just negotiated between the House and Senate," said Galvano, R-Bradenton. "We weren't going to pass something that had no chance of being negotiated. But what we passed was very reasonable and at a minimum meets what is required under the federal law."

Oberonn · 06-13-2009, 09:12 AM

First of all, you can bet the farm that the Seminoles were heavily involved with guiding the politicians they control in the State Legislature during the creation of the passed bill.

Florida State government is corrupt and the Governor is not the only politician owned by the Seminoles.

The Seminoles have proven in the past they are excellent negotiators and anything you see in the media now is simply posturing, probe bets if you will, to see how much more they can get.

There is a very real possibility the next Governor will not be so easily controlled and the Seminoles understand this and you can be assured there will be a signed compact while Crist is in office.

bulls_horn · 06-13-2009, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberonn

First of all, you can bet the farm that the Seminoles were heavily involved with guiding the politicians they control in the State Legislature during the creation of the passed bill.

Florida State government is corrupt and the Governor is not the only politician owned by the Seminoles.

The Seminoles have proven in the past they are excellent negotiators and anything you see in the media now is simply posturing, probe bets if you will, to see how much more they can get.

There is a very real possibility the next Governor will not be so easily controlled and the Seminoles understand this and you can be assured there will be a signed compact while Crist is in office.

The Seminoles had the Senate in their poket, but the House is full of tee-totalers who didn't want expansion of gambling. They relented to a comprimise (just too much money on the table), but it wasn't anywhere near as rosy for the Seminoles. The Seminoles pissed some legislators off when they ingored the judge vacating the old compact. They also had the Perimutuals arguing against exclusivity.

This seems to be a take-it-or-leave-it deal for the Seminoles. Possibly by design, the Legislature left them very little room for comprimise. They have to call a special session to ratify it if the Seminoles aggree, but it's hardly likely they'll go for an extended session to renegotiate.

**PokerXanadu** · 06-14-2009, 10:11 AM

After reviewing all the news articles from this past week, here is my "read" on all the hullabaloo:

What Happened Last Week

Barry Richards, and attorney for the Seminole Tribe, gave an interview where he stated that it is his personal opinion that the Tribe won't accept the new compact as specified by the legislature. Sticking points: exclusivity (none in the new compact, tribe wants it) and amount of the minimum yearly payments ($150 million in new compact; $100 million in old). Richards claims that the new compact would not be approved by the Bureau of Indian Affairs as it violates Federal law without exclusivity for the Tribe. He notes that if the State doesn't negotiate on this points, the State might not get any money from Tribal Gaming if the matter gets referred back to the Federal government for final say.

Rep. Galvano, the House leader in charge of gambling negotiations, and has the power to nix the deal, indicates that no major changes to the terms will be accepted. He said the new compact would stand under Federal law. He mentions that the Tribe was involved in all the legislative negotiations that resulted in the final bill that was passed. He indicates that if the new compact isn't accepted as is, the legislature would not approve and the State will insist that the Feds shut down table gaming at all the Seminole casinos.

The Tribe spokesperson said the tribe won't comment on these matters until negotiations on the new compact begin.

What Wasn't Said

Richards did not mention anything about the fact that the new compact takes table gaming away from the Immokalee casino and allows it only at four out of the seven Seminole casinos. The Tribe is probably willing to accept this as the new compact does allow them to revisit these terms in just five years.

What is True and What Isn't.

The new compact is legal under Federal law, as far as I can tell. There is nothing in the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act, which is the law that specifies what needs to be part of such a compact, which requires exclusivity to be one of the terms of the compact.

If the new compact falls through and the matter goes back to the Feds to settle, they may or may not grant table games to the Seminole tribe and they may or may not grant payments to the State. The process goes like this, per the IGRA: the Federal district court appoints a mediator; the two sides present their proposals; the mediator picks whichever one he thinks best fits Federal law (the IGRA). Period.

If the new compact falls through, the State does have standing and legal rights to ask the Feds to shut down all Class III gaming (slots and table games) at all the Seminole casinos until a new compact is adopted. There would no doubt be a series of court battles about it.

My Read

First of all, although Richards said that this is just his personal opinion and not an official position of the Tribe, there is no way that a Tribe lawyer would make such statements without the approval of the Tribe. So, the question becomes why say these things?

I can only come up with one answer: they were testing the waters to see what they could get away with. No doubt what they really want that isn't in the new compact is exclusivity. I think the rumblings about $150 million/year being too much was just thrown in so they have something else to give up in negotiations, i.e "okay, we concede to $150 million, but give us the exclusivity clause."

I'm pretty sure they found out that they won't get away with any attempt to change the terms of the new compact. It is an all or nothing deal.

So, will they sign off on the new compact? I have my doubts. Sure, they take a gamble that they will lose more in the end. But it's a gamble they can afford to take. They can drag this out for years yet, and probably get away with keeping their gaming tables open for much of that time, if not all. The State will want to get their hands on some of the money and would probably try for another new compact.

But more importanly, the Tribe now owns the entire Hard Rock franchise of casinos around the world, worth billions and billions of dollars. Their most likely corporate vision is exclusive full casino gambling at all their Florida properties. They will take the road which will lead them to this ultimate goal. The current new compact won't.

Exclusivity, in my opinion, is a deal breaker for the Tribe. I hope I'm wrong.

bulls_horn · 06-14-2009, 10:31 AM

The thing is, outside of south Florida (Dade/Broward Counties) they would have exclusivitiy. Seems like they would be the ones taking a big gamble if they reject the compact.

**PokerXanadu** · 06-14-2009, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulls_horn

The thing is, outside of south Florida (Dade/Broward Counties) they would have exclusivitiy.

Incorrect. The new compact does not give them exclusivity anywhere in the State.

soulvamp · 06-14-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulls_horn

The thing is, outside of south Florida (Dade/Broward Counties) they would have exclusivitiy. Seems like they would be the ones taking a big gamble if they reject the compact.

Correct for the present. But at any time, any county in the state could have a referendum to legalize Class III gaming in their county. Most likely, the Tribe's exclusivity would disappear within a few years around the Tampa Bay area.

**PokerXanadu** · 06-14-2009, 11:46 AM

And besides, Miami-Dade/Broward is where most of the Class III gaming in the state currently takes place. If they can't get an exclusivity clause, there would certainly be competing Class III table games there in very short order.

**PokerXanadu** · 06-14-2009, 12:00 PM

The point is that the new compact leaves open the possibility for any locale anywhere in the state to allow Class III gaming at any casino/racino. Once that door is open, it will be very hard to close. If the Seminole tribe wants to have any sort of exclusivity, this is their only chance to set that precedent. They can't sign the new compact as it stands without giving up completely on exclusivity. This is why I think they won't accept it.

warlockjd · 06-14-2009, 06:23 PM

Keep them coming please!

**PokerXanadu** · 06-15-2009, 02:32 AM

Finally found one article that has everything that Richards and Galvano said. Puts it all in better perspective.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/new...agreement.html

Quote:

Would the tribe approve the compact passed by the Legislature?

Barry Richard, an attorney for the Seminole Tribe:

"Not the way it was written in the compact that was included in the bill, because it's not economically viable for the tribe. It effectively destroys any guarantee of exclusivity without releasing the tribe of the obligation to make payments. We're hopeful we can correct those things and send it back and that also the Legislature will participate in the negotiations. Hopefully we can come up with something that everyone will be happy with."

On the exclusivity controversy, Richard said: "What the Legislature did, they provided that gambling could be expanded anywhere in the state, through home rule or by legislative agreement to a referendum. And if that happens, the tribe's payments still have to continue, they're just reduced. That eliminates exclusivity, which is the basis of the federal [Indian Gaming Regulatory Act] law."

The new $150 million annual minimum payment -- a 50 percent increase over the original 2007 compact -- "made out of whack economically," Richard added. "We worked very hard with the governor's office on the first round to balance the economics. Everybody agreed it was fairly balanced. It increases the annual minimum, while at the same time reducing exclusivity. Those things have to be readjusted."

We called Rep. Bill Galvano, who chaired the House committee on gambling and authored the legislation, for his reaction. Not surprisingly, he differed strongly with Richard's assessment.

"I believe that the approach is a sound approach that would get approval by the (federal government), simply because we have worked in a formula, if you will, for any other games that might come online," he said, referring to the exclusivity provisions. "The obligation of the tribe would be adjusted [if new gambling are approved elsewhere]. Just to have a blanket escape clause for the tribe is not practical. It inhibits Florida and policy decisions to come down the line."

He noted that the Legislature's gambling deal includes "not just exclusivity in geographical areas, but they're going to have to recognize that we have gone the extra step and awarded through the compact the ability to conduct (blackjack and other card games), which is not in any way contemplated by the federal law as an obligation."

On the $150m annual minimum, Galvano said: "That's not a big difference from where it was at, $100m. If you look at where we were at throughout the course of the session, at one point $400 million was being discussed. We really came down on that. I don't want to mischaracterize that an agreement was reached, but there was enough communication with the tribe that I felt comfortable -- and I know the Senate did -- that $150m was a good number. With what they're making and what they're projected to make, that's not a burden at all."

Making broad changes to the deal the Legislature approved would be somewhere between extremely difficult and impossible, he said.

"If we're talking about filling in details or making a tweak, that's not going to be very difficult," he said. "If the tribe expects that we would come back to the Legislature with major structural changes, I think the more appealing route would be to just let the feds enforce [current gambling law]. We have put forth a good-faith effort and we can show the federal government we've had hearings, we're talked with the tribe, we've done all we can."

buckyb88 · 06-15-2009, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerXanadu

Finally found one article that has everything that Richards and Galvano said. Puts it all in better perspective.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/new...agreement.html

thoughts now?