Florida New Poker Limits - SB 788. - Page 11 - Poker Legislation

soulvamp · 06-23-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoLimitLover

Zero chance, really? Even with the right carrott or club?

Zero chance.

DREWSKY · 06-24-2009, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerXanadu

There has never been a proposal to give Blackjack to any Florida pari-mutuel. The terms of the new compact simply state that expanding Class III gaming outside of the Seminole casinos in Florida will reduce the payment obligations to the State propotionate to the amount that the Seminole yearly gambling revenues fall below 1.3 Billion$. This leaves the door open to expand Class III Gaming in Florida outside of the Seminole casinos without voiding the compact.

Most likely, first the Muskockee tribe casinos in Miami-Dade county would get a compact similar to the new Seminole compact, allowing Class III slots and table games. Eventually, we would probably also see expansion of Class III slots to some racinos outside of Miami-Dade and Boward counties, depending on local referendums and state legislature approvals. In five years, the Seminoles would try for expansion of their gaming - i.e., adding table games to their remaining 3 casinos and possibly asking for the other casino games (craps, roulette, etc.). If they get that, we'll probably see some other big casino corporations (like Harrahs, MGM, etc.) push to somehow get in on Florida gaming, and we'd likely eventually see at least the Miami area open up to full non-tribal casinos.

Which brings me full circle back to why I don't think the Seminole Tribe is going to let the current compact fly without exclusivity included. It will be worth the trouble and expense to them to fight for exclusivity now so they don't have to share their Florida market later.

PX - I've been keeping up on this thread for the last couple of weeks, and I just wanted to thank you for your insight. You really know your stuff.

I've worked in and out of the casino industry for the past 16 years. I have several friends who work at HR, WPBP, Day, and Mel. All of my buddies have no clue what's going on with this bill, and to be honest none of them care. And my friends at HR told me that the Seminoles aren't keeping them in the loop what so ever, so who ever said they had inside info was full of ****.

I've worked for Indians in Alb., NM back in 95-96, and what basically what happened out there at that time was that the Gov. illegally gave the Indians a compact without going through the state legislature because he got a fat "campaign contribution" so the NM state's attorney wanted to close them all down, but they finally had a special session and it passed 51-49.

So for all you people who think we have a "pro-gambling" Gov. WAKE UP! The Seminoles paid him for that compact two years ago. Don't you people realize that's how laws get passed?

I guess the only question I have for you PX is why did the state legislature have to combine the new laws with the Seminole's and the parimutuels? I understand the tax revenue side of it, but wouldn't it have been easier just to give the Seminole's exclusitivity with BJ,PG, and Bac with one compact like they have keeping them happy, and then pass a different bill allowing the parimutuels to go no limit and extend their hours?

Wouldn't that have made everyone happy?

**PokerXanadu** · 06-24-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DREWSKY

I guess the only question I have for you PX is why did the state legislature have to combine the new laws with the Seminole's and the parimutuels? I understand the tax revenue side of it, but wouldn't it have been easier just to give the Seminole's exclusitivity with BJ,PG, and Bac with one compact like they have keeping them happy, and then pass a different bill allowing the parimutuels to go no limit and extend their hours?

Wouldn't that have made everyone happy?

What you are really looking at here is three different interests. All had to be satisfied to get any sort of gambling deal:

1. The governor, Seminole Tribe and dems that want full blown gambling. The Tribe wants it for their revenues; the politicos want it for the budget dollars it generates for the state, so they can fund more government spending.

2. The Replicans who have a large voting consituency of the religious right. They want to prevent the expansion of "predaotry gambling" in the state. However, they know they can't stop all gambling expansion and for the most part these Republicans are just trying to keep the vote of their religious right constituency. So they have to put up a fight to "limit" the expansion, e.g. just table games, not all games; just at four casinos, not all seven, etc.

3. The House Representatives from the counties that have racinos - especially Miami-Dade and Broward. They work hard to keep their constituents - and their backers - happy, by getting concessions to make the racinos more competitive with the casinos (which they need in order to survive).

The changes for pari-mutuels in SB788 will allow the racinos to compete with the Seminole casinos. Without legislation for an expansion of gambling at the casinos, the changes for pari-mutuels would not have been proposed or passed. The two issues were tied together, and it only makes sense that they were eventually combined into one bill.

By the way, the changes to poker for the pari-mutuels was a 'gimme' as an offset to the changes to poker for the Seminole casinos. The tougher, hard-fought issues for the pari-mutuels were reduction of taxes on Class III slots, quarter horse racing so Hialeah could open up again and bingo slots for any racino that can get voter approval (local referendum plus state legislative approval).

**PokerXanadu** · 06-25-2009, 09:56 AM

Interesting article:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...izon-at-calder

Quote:

...A bill the Florida legislature passed last month sets a 35% rate, a cut from the current 50%, for casinos at horse and Greyhound tracks and jai-alai frontons in Miami-Dade and Broward counties.

Several leaders of the legislature anticipate the bill will become law during this year’s fourth quarter...

buckyb88 · 06-25-2009, 01:03 PM

PX,

When do you anticipate we'll know more?

**PokerXanadu** · 06-25-2009, 08:11 PM

Sometime between now and September 1st.

buckyb88 · 06-25-2009, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerXanadu

Sometime between now and September 1st.

good enough for me.

really appreciate everything you've been doing ITT.

**PokerXanadu** · 06-26-2009, 03:00 PM

As always, follow the money:

Quote:

Seminole Tribe’s Gamble Pays Big Dividends
Seminole Tribe’s Gamble Pays Big Dividends
Source: National Institute on Money in State Politics (FollowTheMoney.org)

On the final day of the 2009 legislative session, Florida lawmakers passed a law to expand gambling and offer a new gambling compact to the Seminole Tribe. Prior, the legislature had resisted gambling expansion in the state for decades. A new report from the National Institute on Money in State Politics (FollowTheMoney.org) shows this reversal by the legislature coincides with an increase in contributions from the Seminole Tribe and related businesses, which gave more than $720,000 in 2008—more than their combined giving during the past ten years.

The Seminole Tribe and its affiliates overwhelmingly favored Republicans with $563,733 in contributions compared to $156,500 given to Democrats during the 2008 election cycle. The Tribe targeted their giving well: winners received 94 percent of the money.

The Seminole Tribe and its affiliates weren’t the only gaming interest to give large political contributions in 2008. Other gaming interests gave a total of $3 million to electoral campaigns in 2008, making Florida sixth in the nation for the number of gaming contributions. These interests also favored Republicans over Democrats, by a $2 million to $700,000 margin. Unlike the Seminole Tribe and its affiliates, gaming interests did not show the same dramatic increase in contributions in 2008.

An expanded article can be seen here:

http://www.followthemoney.org/press/...ml?r=397&em=58

**PokerXanadu** · 06-28-2009, 07:32 PM

A new article with some interesting insights into the ongoing process:

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/...alee-casino-b/

naplesplayer · 06-29-2009, 11:04 AM

Take everything in this paper with a grain of salt. The Naples Daily News is a joke in Naples. I live in Naples.

NoLimitLover · 06-29-2009, 11:06 AM

The article confirms my initial take the compact deadline will come and go and the Seminoles are not likely to ever pay the State a penny.

ChipLeeder · 06-29-2009, 07:34 PM

If the compact goes away the state probably will find a way to recoupe the Seminole money by getting tax dollars from Jai Alai and dog tracks (imho.) The best way to do this would be giving them Blackjack (and possibly other casino games.) One of the main reasons the Seminoles are willing to fork over the 100 mil+ payments is (I believe) exclusivity which they could seriously jeopardize by not finding a way to reach an agreement with the state.

I also heard recently that the tracks and frontons are still actively lobbying for blackjack.

**PokerXanadu** · 06-30-2009, 09:53 AM

I just reviewed the texts of the original compact and the new proposed compact. Here is an explanation of the differences in the exclusivity terms:

1. Class II slots authorized for new locations (i.e. outside Miami-Dade and Broward counties):

Original Compact: All payments to the state cease.

New Compact: No change to payments to the state.

2. Maimi-Dade and/or Broward Counties offer Class III slots:

Original Compact: If Tribe profits fall below $1.37 Billion, all payments to the state cease. If profits rise above $1.37 billion again, payments resume.

New Compact: No change to payments to the state.

3. Maimi-Dade and/or Broward Counties offer other Class III Gaming:

Original Compact: If Tribe profits fall below $1.37 Billion, all payments to the state cease. If profits rise above $1.37 billion again, payments resume.

New Compact: If Tribe profits fall below $1.37 Billion, payments to the state are reduced proportionately. If profits rise above $1.37 billion again, full payments resume.

4. Class III slots and/or other Class III Gaming authorized in other counties:

Original Compact: All payments to the state cease.

New Compact: If Tribe profits fall below $1.37 Billion, payments to the state are reduced proportionately. If profits rise above $1.37 billion again, full payments resume.

5. A similar compact is given to another Indian tribe:

Original Compact: No change to payments to the state.

New Compact: No change to payments to the state.

Links:

Original compact:
http://jobsforflorida.com/docs/Compact.pdf

New compact:
http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sectio...8&Session=2009

**PokerXanadu** · 06-30-2009, 10:07 AM

Age Limits Revisited

The original Seminole compact specified:

Quote:

No person under the age of twenty-one (21) shall be allowed to play Covered Games.

...

Additionally, to reduce risks of underage gambling and underage drinking, the Tribe prohibits entry onto the casino floor of anyone under 18 years of age.

The new proposed compact specifies:

Quote:

Additionally, to reduce risks of underage gambling and underage drinking, the Tribe will continue to prohibit entry onto the casino floor of anyone under twenty-one (21) years of age.

...

No person under twenty-one (21) years of age shall be allowed to play Covered Games unless otherwise permitted by state law.

In both cases, "Covered Games" includes poker.

Right now, there is a sign at the Hard Rock Tampa entrance that specifies that the age limit for playing casinos games and drinking is 21, but the age limit for the poker room is 18. It's quite possible that they intend to retain this policy under the new compact as the only Florida law that allows under 21s to play any "Covered Game" is the pari-mutuel law that allows 18 and up for poker.

Bruce Peery · 07-01-2009, 12:13 PM

I have looked everywhere online and asked many people I know who live in FL about the possible limit changes. I tried sorting through all of the responses here and am a little confused. Is this a definite change in FL that's coming or just more long rumored speculation on the part of the government to raise our hopes only to have them come crashing down? Not being a lazy ass, I just couldn't find the exact limits FL was rumored to be changing.

Thanks,

Bruce