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The Poker Legislation Forum, Brought to You by the PPA Discussions of various poker-related laws and steps players can take to push for better laws.

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Old 01-03-2012, 05:05 PM   #1
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Why can I still play and cash out if US online poker is illegal?

There's a few sites that I've been able to play on and cash out even though I'm in the US and it's supposedly "illegal"? What's up with that?
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Old 01-03-2012, 05:07 PM   #2
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Re: Why can I still play and cash out if US online poker is illegal?

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Originally Posted by westy_m View Post
There's a few sites that I've been able to play on and cash out even though I'm in the US and it's supposedly "illegal"? What's up with that?
Have you ever drive above limit or smoke weed?
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Old 01-03-2012, 05:15 PM   #3
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Re: Why can I still play and cash out if US online poker is illegal?

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Have you ever drive above limit or smoke weed?
Thought so.
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Old 01-03-2012, 05:16 PM   #4
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Re: Why can I still play and cash out if US online poker is illegal?

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Originally Posted by Onasaz View Post
Have you ever drive above limit or smoke weed?
not really a good analogy, since those are both illegal for the person doing them.. playing poker is legal, it's illegal for the businesses, not for you.
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Old 01-03-2012, 05:20 PM   #5
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Re: Why can I still play and cash out if US online poker is illegal?

The businesses skirt the US laws in order to make money off of you. There are also many instances of such scofflaws stealing account balances from players in one manner or another, and other such scandals. Not that they all necessarily do it, but you should be aware that you are taking risks with your money and should not keep more money on these sites than you can afford to lose.

You should also join our fight to get licensed and regulated Internet poker in the US, so that we don't suffer from these risks as players.
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:57 PM   #6
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Re: Why can I still play and cash out if US online poker is illegal?

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Originally Posted by PokerXanadu View Post
The businesses skirt the US laws in order to make money off of you. ...

.
I thought that assertion died on December 23, 2011.

What is the US/Federal law or laws you are referring to as bring "skirted" ?

It might be "better" to have federal legislation of some sort passed, in whatever year that comes to be, but it does a disservice to pretend that current US laws prohibit online poker at the federal level.
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Old 01-04-2012, 07:05 AM   #7
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Re: Why can I still play and cash out if US online poker is illegal?

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Originally Posted by DonkeyQuixote View Post
I thought that assertion died on December 23, 2011.

What is the US/Federal law or laws you are referring to as bring "skirted" ?

It might be "better" to have federal legislation of some sort passed, in whatever year that comes to be, but it does a disservice to pretend that current US laws prohibit online poker at the federal level.
Sorry - I should have been more specific. I meant laws of various states in the US.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:10 PM   #8
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Re: Why can I still play and cash out if US online poker is illegal?

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not really a good analogy, since those are both illegal for the person doing them.. playing poker is legal, it's illegal for the businesses, not for you.
Cashing a check under false pretenses is arguably bank fraud and money laundering.

Denying a bank the right to decline a transaction that is potentially illegal falls under that. Lawyers, please correct me if I'm wrong.

That said, the most likely thing a bank would do if you were somehow dumb enough to volunteer information about potentially illegal transactions is to decline the transaction and discontinue doing business with you (close your account and give you the balance of your money back).
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:25 PM   #9
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Re: Why can I still play and cash out if US online poker is illegal?

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not really a good analogy, since those are both illegal for the person doing them.. playing poker is legal, it's illegal for the businesses, not for you.
how does that make any sense?

the UIGEA talks about illegal online gambling. Either poker is illegal or not. The UIGEA does not change that. And the UIGEA does not change whether poker is illegal in the us or not.

I am still wondering if online poker is illegal or not. I'd like to hear a statement of the PPA towards that.
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:53 PM   #10
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Re: Why can I still play and cash out if US online poker is illegal?

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Originally Posted by knircky View Post
how does that make any sense?

the UIGEA talks about illegal online gambling. Either poker is illegal or not. The UIGEA does not change that. And the UIGEA does not change whether poker is illegal in the us or not.

I am still wondering if online poker is illegal or not. I'd like to hear a statement of the PPA towards that.
It's not illegal, it's unlawful.

The best way to look at it is like betting on a golf course, you can't get in trouble for it, but if someone decides to welch you can't take him to court to collect.

You have none of the consumer protection you would have on a lawful (regulated) site.
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:56 PM   #11
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Re: Why can I still play and cash out if US online poker is illegal?

Probably because humans being can't be controlled by retarded laws
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Old 01-04-2012, 07:41 PM   #12
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Re: Why can I still play and cash out if US online poker is illegal?

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Probably because humans being can't be controlled by retarded laws
That premise may be tested by 2013, given the results in Iowa Tuesday.
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Old 01-04-2012, 08:08 PM   #13
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Re: Why can I still play and cash out if US online poker is illegal?

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It's not illegal, it's unlawful.

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Old 01-04-2012, 08:41 PM   #14
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Re: Why can I still play and cash out if US online poker is illegal?

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Originally Posted by knircky View Post
how does that make any sense?

the UIGEA talks about illegal online gambling. Either poker is illegal or not. The UIGEA does not change that. And the UIGEA does not change whether poker is illegal in the us or not.

I am still wondering if online poker is illegal or not. I'd like to hear a statement of the PPA towards that.
It depends on what state you live in.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:07 PM   #15
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Re: Why can I still play and cash out if US online poker is illegal?

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Originally Posted by knircky View Post
how does that make any sense?

the UIGEA talks about illegal online gambling. Either poker is illegal or not. The UIGEA does not change that. And the UIGEA does not change whether poker is illegal in the us or not.

I am still wondering if online poker is illegal or not. I'd like to hear a statement of the PPA towards that.
It does not have to make much sense to be valid law according to the law. A full discussion can begin with a google search with the phrase "substantive due process."

It is the way the law is written not only at the Federal Level, but also by a number of states (Kentucky and New York, for example) - to commit an offense for which you can be punished according to these criminal laws the defendant must have done something to establish that he or she is more than a mere player in the illegal game.

This is accomplished by passing a criminal law that subjects an operator of an illegal gambling game to punishment but passing no law that does the same for a participant non-operator.

This has the beneficial effect of making home games with no operator not subject to prosecution - there is no one to arrest in such a situation.

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