Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEngineer
You posted an idea of having debates here. I shared some concerns with you and, instead of replying with something like, "yeah...I see where you'd be concerned, but here's how we'd benefit....," you instead chose to reply with (paraphrasing) "PPA sucks and so do you."
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This is my first post in the Hills thread:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...hills-1114961/
It begins with the phrase, "I think the value of inviting debate is three-fold," and continues "3. It will be helpful to show the breadth and diversity of opinions across all those who call themselves 'Christian.'" In the end, I address the possibility that Hills may not want a part, and conclude with, "absent participation from a CitizenLink representative, I think there's even some value in organizing an internal 2+2 debate on the issue (with the same or similar format). At least the third goal above would be accomplished."
This is a reasonable post, and has nothing to do with the PPA.
This is your first response to me in that thread:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...4&postcount=79
In part, it reads, "I think reaching out is wise. However, that's not what is being discussed here. What's being discussed is some hope that we can either change Hills' mind or that we can expose him by out-debating him."
This is a misunderstanding of my position, which I responded to:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...7&postcount=80
It explains simply, "This has absolutely nothing to do with changing Hills' mind. This is about changing - or even making up - the minds of those who are peripherally connected to Christianity or poker."
And suddenly you're on the Tiltland Express:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...8&postcount=96
TheEngineer: "I can't even begin to describe how angry I am right now. You know how much work we've put into this fight???"
Really? You seriously have the gall to insinuate I'm the unreasonable one? That I brought up the PPA? That I'm taking swipes at your personally?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEngineer
You've been shouting down everyone who disagrees with you and then acting offended that anyone would dare ask you a question.
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No, I've been "shouting down" everyone who disagrees with me
without having read my posts. And that includes you:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=240
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=244
And by "my posts," I don't mean the OP. The number of people who assumed I was the OP is a pretty good indicator of how thoroughly they read my posts before mashing the reply button.
And by "shouting down," that's actually pretty funny, considering the number of posts I spend just quoting myself to show that I've already answered the questions asked. I suppose it is a little like shouting someone down in the sense that I'm repeating myself over and over again, but honestly, it's a lot closer to a parent repeating him/herself when a petulant child keeps asking, "Why?" no matter what's given.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheEngineer
(something about being a terrible debater)
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(I accidentally deleted the quote, sorry.)
You're absolutely right that I'm a terrible, terrible debater. You see, the "problem" with me is that I like to look at the data first, then formulate an opinion. Unless new data is presented (which it almost never is in a debate format), I'm rarely changing my opinion, which is why I come across as a stubborn ass. In a debate format, I tend to blow my wad early on, presenting all my justifications up front, meaning the rest of the debate generally ends with me pointing back at stuff I've already said/presented. I have no zingers or surprises that I'm going to Big Reveal later.
You'll note that in the Hills thread, my initial proposal is crafted to reduce the Zing Factor - people make their initial posts without the knowledge of the others', then have a full week to respond. And it's no surprise that if I were one of the participants, I'd be spending that week looking up laws and Bible verses and anticipating counter-responses. In short, when I post a response, I'm generally committed to standing by it for eternity.
As a matter of fact, one of my criticisms of you (and Skallagrim, although I haven't had any conflicts with him recently) is that you seem to be unaware of the fact that your posts are archived for eternity, and your REAL NAMES are attached to them. Every time a PPA authorized representative says something dumb, it's forever attached to the PPA. You can't exaggerate how much effort you put into Facebook posting to score points in one thread and then deny how much time you spend on it in another. This tactic is exactly that of a "successful" live debater - it's hard to remember what someone said at the beginning of the debate, so any internal inconsistencies are easily missed. It's counterproductive in fixed-format discussions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEngineer
Then, you decided that I needed to be taught a lesson, so you announced your plan to troll me for the decision I made as forum mod.
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This is a blatant misrepresentation of my position, but posting this and then locking the thread is a great way to get the last say. I must be persecuting you because you're a mod, right?
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...6&postcount=44
TheEngineer: "I disagree with your idea, so you plan to troll me to teach me a lesson?"
Callipygian: "No, your raging Messiah complex about all that you've done for the cause has depleted the good will you had built up, so now you get treated like everyone else when they say patently absurd things."
What decision as a forum mod are you referring to, anyway? I'm pointing out your flaws as a poster.
Your flaws as a forum mod (such as locking the Hills thread, and then reopening it a few hours later) are a separate topic and more or less irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
TheEngineer has admitted in another thread that most of the effort is marshalling people to post on Facebook pages
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skallagrim
This is a crude way of putting things. It is also basically correct.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEngineer
That's ridiculous.
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Let's just put aside my opinion for a second and focus on the discrepancy between your two answers. Why would Skallagrim post that I'm "basically correct" while you dismiss my statement as "ridiculous"? Is my statement close to the truth (in which case, it's not "ridiculous"), or is it far from the truth (in which case, it can't be "basically correct")?
I, of course, vote for the former. And my source for the information is not a mystery -
you spent a better part of the Hills thread bragging about how important the Facebook stuff was.
You were the one who said that the purpose was to give the paid lobbyists ammunition.
You were the one who bragged about how much hard work it was and complained how I was ruining everything.
Prior to the Hills thread, I didn't think that this whole Facebook thing was that important to you or that you had put much effort into it -
you convinced me otherwise!
And here's where the honesty part comes in. If you were to say, "The PPA doesn't have any funds to do anything that isn't free, so even though this isn't very important, we want to get people excited and donate," I'd understand that. I'd be sympathetic to that. I realize that it doesn't make the PPA look great, but as you have probably noticed, I'm also a terrible PR manager so whatever.
You can bet your [redacted by PR] that most of my criticism will revolve around self-inconsistencies, especially when you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. Initially, I was willing to overlook these sorts of PR "white lies" because I agree with a certain fraction of what you've done. Over the past 6 months it's become obvious to me that the PPA is not adjusting to new game conditions, and I'm not so confident that I'm going to agree with the same fraction of what you're going to do in the next 6 months. Your attitude towards people like me and DQ solidified that opinion.
If you think I'm somehow treating you (TE) differently than I would other people, I suggest you search for my posts in Poker Legislation / PPA from 4/15-6/15. There aren't that many, but in particular you should note my arrogant, condescending responses to PPA critics - you just probably missed them because they happened to be in your favor. And honestly, you'll probably see some more in the future when PPA critics say dumb things.
I criticize dumb things, period, no matter who they come from.
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