Should the PPA concentrate on state legislation instead of federal?

[Jonaspublius]

Originally Posted by As armas

Yeah all NJ residents who support S1565 need to make following the Daily Action Plan a part of their day. I will be doing exactly that. Don't get lazy and not do anything because you assume its a done deal. Its not. Even if you assume its 95% to pass, lets all put in the time to make that probability even higher. The net positive effect of passage on the US online poker scene can't be overstated.

I'm glad to hear the PPA supports S1565. Its not just NJ resident poker players that will benefit, but players all across the country. Sen Lesniak has already talked about how upon passage the legislature will be reaching out to other states and trying to convince them to pass a bill that simply allows for residents of that state to join the NJ player pool. In return that state will get added revenue. And with all these states in the red, it will get done. And then when congress does what it does better than any other institution in the history of the human species, ie it doesn't do ****, that won't stop US online poker from coming back.

Would Lesniak be open to help lobby NJ potential providers to invest in forming a player advocacy group to spearhead expansion of the player pool? I'm not sure where he is in his career arc, but I can imagine there is money and influence to be won representing players.

[TheEngineer]

Originally Posted by Jonaspublius

Would Lesniak be open to help lobby NJ potential providers to invest in forming a player advocacy group to spearhead expansion of the player pool? I'm not sure where he is in his career arc, but I can imagine there is money and influence to be won representing players.

LOL at Lesniak quitting to lobby for NJ players for a living.

I do my work for less than half of what I made as an engineer (I guess I do it for love of the game). Greg Raymer posted here that he receives no compensation for being an advisor for FairPlay USA. I'm not sure why you're so convinced that casinos give big grants to supporters, to the degree that you seem angry when groups don't get fat checks mailed to them, or that players will donate billions if only someone would ask, but reality is what it is.

[TheEngineer]

Originally Posted by Jonaspublius

I sat on my couch and imagined a magical world where casinos regularly give big-money grants to supporters, so now I spend my days angrily posting my dreams on forums.

FYP

[Jonaspublius]

Originally Posted by TheEngineer

FYP

Oh yes, and you sit in a fantasy world where an unfounded lobbyist group has nothing beyond social media spamming you had to be browbeat into even considering? What new money have you secured, or is it a big secret? You still won't back organizing players to solicit money for the PPA, and individual donations are tiny........You claim limited funds for PPA activities. What do you propose? Have you even freed up PX and Florida to try and expand?


Let's see the plans? Come on, since you eschew soliciting the profit makers, let us see the TE PPA financing plan for the inevitable 50 state campaign. Or just admit you don't have one, and maybe sit seriously with us and find some ideas to get money.


Or wait, is the PPA happy to not have money for organization and state lobbying? I forgot there wasn't a conspiracy theory.

You wonder why so many people have been run off? You can't handle the least, most-obvious criticisms without adolescent displays like this. Or do you think those of us who want a wider effort aren't on the same side.

[Jonaspublius]

Originally Posted by TheEngineer

LOL at Lesniak quitting to lobby for NJ players for a living.

I do my work for less than half of what I made as an engineer (I guess I do it for love of the game). Greg Raymer posted here that he receives no compensation for being an advisor for FairPlay USA. I'm not sure why you're so convinced that casinos give big grants to supporters, to the degree that you seem angry when groups don't get fat checks mailed to them, or that players will donate billions if only someone would ask, but reality is what it is.

Obviously, I'm not the only one who sees profit in poker lobbying/organizing. You or the forum shut down a half-assed attempt over the weekend. I'm sure Caesar's pays lobbyists lobbyist money. Da'amato got a lot off the PPA, and pols routinely help several efforts at once. It's not a far fetched idea, if only to get some sound advice from the man. You notice I left room open for NJ poster input.

But, hey, anytime criticism appears, it is circle the PPA poster wagons, and circular fire the peons. We're all totally ****ing stupid, so no casualties of essential personnel. Disdain and sarcasm FTW.

[TheEngineer]

Originally Posted by Jonaspublius

Oh yes, and you sit in a fantasy world where an unfounded lobbyist group has nothing beyond social media spamming you had to be browbeat into even considering? What new money have you secured, or is it a big secret? You still won't back organizing players to solicit money for the PPA, and individual donations are tiny........You claim limited funds for PPA activities. What do you propose? Have you even freed up PX and Florida to try and expand?


Let's see the plans? Come on, since you eschew soliciting the profit makers, let us see the TE PPA financing plan for the inevitable 50 state campaign. Or just admit you don't have one, and maybe sit seriously with us and find some ideas to get money.


Or wait, is the PPA happy to not have money for organization and state lobbying? I forgot there wasn't a conspiracy theory.

You wonder why so many people have been run off? You can't handle the least, most-obvious criticisms without adolescent displays like this. Or do you think those of us who want a wider effort aren't on the same side.

What is wrong with you??? Why do you keep saying we eschew soliciting profit makers???????? Are you that dense, really?

[Krayzcootr]

Originally Posted by TheEngineer

What is wrong with you??? Why do you keep saying we eschew soliciting profit makers???????? Are you that dense, really?

I wish that you would at least answer some of the questions that were presented in his post without using personal attacks for legitimate questions. Specifically, "PPA financing plan for the inevitable 50 state campaign. Or just admit you don't have one, and maybe sit seriously with us and find some ideas to get money."

[Krayzcootr]

Originally Posted by TheEngineer

LOL at Lesniak quitting to lobby for NJ players for a living.

I do my work for less than half of what I made as an engineer (I guess I do it for love of the game). Greg Raymer posted here that he receives no compensation for being an advisor for FairPlay USA. I'm not sure why you're so convinced that casinos give big grants to supporters, to the degree that you seem angry when groups don't get fat checks mailed to them, or that players will donate billions if only someone would ask, but reality is what it is.

What would the harm be if the PPA could if even find out if he has a interest? I feel the bold part has no merit in this argument and is just a typical red herring

[rwperu34]

Originally Posted by Krayzcootr

I wish that you would at least answer some of the questions that were presented in his post without using personal attacks for legitimate questions.

The problem is, these aren't legitimate questions. This idiotic debate has been going on for months and months and most of the questions have been answered several times. It's actually getting a little annoying (to me) that TE even responds to him any more. There are few of these guys who keep beating the same point home again and again. What it amounts to is, the PPA isn't doing exactly what they want and if it were done their way we'd be a lot better off. It's complete BS. The decision makers at the PPA have way more information than some cartoon on a message board, therefore they are far better equipped to make the correct decisions.

[TheEngineer]

Originally Posted by Krayzcootr

What would the harm be if the PPA could if even find out if he has a interest?

I don't think we can go to lawmakers and tell them all that, if they support poker, they can expect a job on retirement. For one, that would be illegal.

I feel the bold part has no merit in this argument and is just a typical red herring

JP keeps posting his belief that casinos give multimillion dollar grants, and he's actually angry that PPA doesn't have that imaginary cash flow. I simply posted some real data.

[Jonaspublius]

Originally Posted by TheEngineer

I don't think we can go to lawmakers and tell them all that, if they support poker, they can expect a job on retirement. For one, that would be illegal.

JP keeps posting his belief that casinos give multimillion dollar grants, and he's actually angry that PPA doesn't have that imaginary cash flow. I simply posted some real data.

Angry? All I did was suggest someone form a player advocacy group and focus on raising money from interests likely to profit from it. You have made it clear the PPA does not have an interest in more player organization or more public and active courtship of the casinos. Fine. You're the one who stepped into a conversation with a NJ poster with an adolescent thumb your nose post at me.

If the PPA won't do it, or try it in the eyes of players seeing it done, let us live in our own fantasy world. You don't have to flip us off and insinuate we don't care, are angry, or are stupid. You've done that enough, we know.

If the PPA won't reorganize its rules and structure, then don't intrude when other people stop by trying to form an alternate approach. Is it that hard for you that not everyone is in perfect agreement, and might want something else? I don't want state bills, state regs, or state pools. But, I accept that is where the reality is. You're living in 2009.

And your organization is out of money, out of the loop, and the reality is the states are moving, without your help, or apparent interest. NJ posters, and others of us had to BEG to get a focus on this. You hold up some hypothetical Indiana player, and assume they don't want regulated poker somewhere, but your answer is shut up, don't suggest, don't disagree, and don't purse poker where it IS expanding. Take the pulse of 2p2, and see if anyone gives a **** about their own state right now IF we can get several states moving. Ignore me, insult me, whatever, I've never cared about my ego, but at least stop a minute and ask players here what they want. Remember, the fight is out THERE.

[TheEngineer]

Originally Posted by Jonaspublius

Angry? All I did was suggest someone form a player advocacy group and focus on raising money from interests likely to profit from it. You have made it clear the PPA does not have an interest in more player organization or more public and active courtship of the casinos.

I said no such thing. I favor further organization of players under the PPA umbrella. I also favor public and active courtship of casino interests.

Fine. You're the one who stepped into a conversation with a NJ poster with an adolescent thumb your nose post at me.

No. You're the one attacking me with these ridiculous strawmen.

If the PPA won't do it, or try it in the eyes of players seeing it done, let us live in our own fantasy world. You don't have to flip us off and insinuate we don't care, are angry, or are stupid. You've done that enough, we know.

We are doing this. All of it.

If the PPA won't reorganize its rules and structure,

There have been no calls for reorganization.

then don't intrude when other people stop by trying to form an alternate approach.

Who's intruding?

Is it that hard for you that not everyone is in perfect agreement, and might want something else? I don't want state bills, state regs, or state pools. But, I accept that is where the reality is. You're living in 2009.

No one has refused to try different things. Post your ideas and we'll discuss them.

And your organization is out of money, out of the loop, and the reality is the states are moving, without your help, or apparent interest.

None of that is true.

NJ posters, and others of us had to BEG to get a focus on this.

No one begged me for anything. To the contrary, no one would post an action item, a suggested tweet, or anything, even after I asked.

You hold up some hypothetical Indiana player, and assume they don't want regulated poker somewhere, but your answer is shut up, don't suggest, don't disagree, and don't purse poker where it IS expanding.

That wasn't me.

Take the pulse of 2p2, and see if anyone gives a **** about their own state right now IF we can get several states moving. Ignore me, insult me, whatever, I've never cared about my ego, but at least stop a minute and ask players here what they want. Remember, the fight is out THERE.

I ask every day, which is why I have over 17K posts here.

[Jonaspublius]

Just let it go? If you want the last word, take it. Every suggestion isn't an insult or slight against you. You see a fundamentally different approach, but try and just let it go if other people want to consider alternatives.

[novahunterpa]

Originally Posted by Skallagrim

OK, that makes three of you wanting the PPA to "do something" in NJ.

What would you have it do?

What do you think it needs to do, if anything?

And, finally, how would you justify putting extra resources into a NJ effort to a PPA member from Indiana?

I am really seeking answers here so no need to troll. I wont respond for a while to let answers flow, besides I need to get back to patting myself on the back and telling everyone what a great a job I am doing.

Skallagrim

I'm not suggesting the PPA give up on federal legislation,quit lobbying Congress and move their offices out of DC.

With a federal bill seeming less and less likely and at least some states (like NJ/CA) seriously looking at trying to get a bill passed that the PPA should at least find some ways to support the effort behind these state bills.

If the PPA doesn't have funds to lobby in these 2/3 states then they can at least try and rally some support for them.

Start by reminding PPA members for those states to contact their state lawmakers in support of these bills and suggest player friendly amendments

Along with pushing for federal regulation the PPA can mention some of the positives of state legislation and these state efforts when doing media(artricles,radio,etc).

PPA can contact some of the lawmakers and other groups lobbying for these state bills to show support and to give and receive feedback on the bills and make sure they understand not to forget the consumer(We Players) when drafting and debating these state bills.

The member in Indiana isn't going to car very much that the PPA puts a little effort and money into states bills. Even if a fed bill passes not every state will opt-in and likely most wont at the state. The state-by-state approach will be slow going at first but once we get a few states up and running others will follow(maybe even Indiana).

[novahunterpa]

Originally Posted by TheEngineer

PPA is constrained by its resources and the amount of effort the membership is willing to put forth in the fight. I wish PPA could lobby all fifty states and Capitol Hill, but subdividing what we have will just result in a bunch of weak efforts, rather than in one strong one.

We players are not entitled to an organization to fight for us. Rather, we all need to fight together to win this via our efforts. If you want a robust lobbying effort in NJ, players will have to take action via donations, citizen lobbying, and other measures, rather than demanding that PPA make the funding and organizing materialize magically out of thin air.

PPA doesn't have to spend all of its resources lobbying all fifty states. Just spend a little time and a little bit of money on the few states that have actual online poker bills pending. Simply be supportive of these states legislative efforts would be a big step in the right direction.

We have a much better chance at getting a few states to pass online bills then hoping that Reid can attach a bill the lame duck and then waiting another 2 years hoping he tries again. Maybe if a few states pass online gambling/poker it will force the feds to act and maybe it wont but even with a federal bill the battle front will quickly move from DC to the states.