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The Poker Legislation Forum, Brought to You by the PPA Discussions of various poker-related laws and steps players can take to push for better laws.

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Old 03-04-2013, 07:50 AM   #1
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Segregation of players based on skill - US Online Poker

So after reading this weekend about what Party and now Revolution are doing with their player pools I'm a bit concerned. Basically if you are a winning player/player with good stats on these networks you will be separated from the fishy players on the network and will only be able to play with players their software deems is of equal skill.

I know that some US Casinos have agreements to use the Party/Bwin software. Please tell me this **** won't fly here in the US once regulated. Anything in the NV/NJ legislation that would deal with crap like this?
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:53 AM   #2
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Re: Segregation of players based on skill - US Online Poker

Nothing in any US legislation or regulations addresses this issue, and I doubt we will see anything that does. It will probably be left as an internal control procedure for individual sites that is either approved or disapproved by the regulators through normal regulatory procedures. For the time being, I don't think that any US-regulated site will implement any segregation of their player pools, as they compete in the newly opened US regulated market for market share. It may become an issue a few years down the road, as the market leaders get established and as player pools reach a size where segregation could be considered.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:34 AM   #3
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Re: Segregation of players based on skill - US Online Poker

If this happens in the states, we'll be able to piss of the regulators until the end of time.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:43 AM   #4
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Re: Segregation of players based on skill - US Online Poker

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If this happens in the states, we'll be able to piss of the regulators until the end of time.
I am going to go all contrarian again.

First it is still not clear precisely what Party are doing and "segregation by win rate" is just an assumption to date. Indeed the only statement Party have made is that new players are free to choose any table.

Second the usual refrain is that regulation should be minimal and that a market system offering choice is the preferred way to keep sites in line. Banning player pools or leagues would be a step beyond regulation to protect the vulnerable, the underage, game operation, protecting consumer balances or any reasonable area where regulation is justified. this is a business decision, a marketing decision with a site wanting to appeal to a specific niche market. Controlling that is way beyond a regulatory remit.

Finally. We face a situation where one site has a near monopoly. Restricting smaller competitors from following their business plan to compete with that monopoly would not be in the interests of players, competition or freedom.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:24 PM   #5
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Re: Segregation of players based on skill - US Online Poker

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but that assumes we'll have a free enough market to punish any site that would do it. If Caesars would do this, with the WSOP brand that will always be a top tier site for amateurs, then there isn't much we as players could do other than go to the regulator.

I don't know why I am complaining, though. This is good policy for me.
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:34 PM   #6
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Re: Segregation of players based on skill - US Online Poker

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I don't necessarily disagree with you, but that assumes we'll have a free enough market to punish any site that would do it. If Caesars would do this, with the WSOP brand that will always be a top tier site for amateurs, then there isn't much we as players could do other than go to the regulator.

I don't know why I am complaining, though. This is good policy for me.
i highly doubt that caesars will be the number one top site.

sure, plenty of amateurs will flock there because of the wsop brand. but just based on how caesars runs things (i mean, look at the exact same boring schedule that the wsopc is every stop)....sites like stars and borgata will have creativity and give hte players what they want, making them top contenders
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:16 PM   #7
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Re: Segregation of players based on skill - US Online Poker

Lets start the derail of this thread. Stars is banned from Nevada and still has an uphill battle in NJ. Borgata is owned by Boyd/MGM though a subsidiary and both of them have a partnership with Bwin, the company that started this discussion in the first place.

Caesars has 25k rooms in Vegas alone, WSOP, one of(if not the) largest rewards memberships in the world, and is easily the most prepared US gaming interest for the future IPoker market. Saying they will be anything other than the top provider in the US market is probably wrong. Saying that any other company will be able to be more creative is wishful thinking. The only thing that is going to hold Caesars back is their future bankruptcy, but even then creditors stand to gain a whole lot more by allowing Caesars to continue their expansion online.

My previous post was simply an example of what could happen wrt this issue in a highly segregated market like we will have in the near future. I highly doubt Caesars will ever do anything this stupid. They stand to make several times more off the IPoker market by funneling players to their casinos.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:14 PM   #8
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Re: NJ online poker legislation (passed)

Hopefully Party can't segregate players in nj like they are doing now.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:26 PM   #9
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Re: Segregation of players based on skill - US Online Poker

I can't imagine a PS run site ever segregating by skill level.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:54 AM   #10
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Re: Segregation of players based on skill - US Online Poker

This Fair Play crap is absolutely awful, but the "beginners tables" Party has/had isnt a terrible idea.

They had those like 8+ years ago IIRC. Nothing over 50nl, and you had to have an account <30 days old.

I don't think many would object to something like that. New Fish get a chance to get their feet wet at micros without sharks gobbling them up instantly. (They don't have to play the tables of course, its just an option)

I also doubt there would be many people making new accounts every 30 days just to play in fishy microstakes games.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:53 AM   #11
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Re: Segregation of players based on skill - US Online Poker

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This Fair Play crap is absolutely awful, but the "beginners tables" Party has/had isnt a terrible idea.

They had those like 8+ years ago IIRC. Nothing over 50nl, and you had to have an account <30 days old.

I don't think many would object to something like that. New Fish get a chance to get their feet wet at micros without sharks gobbling them up instantly. (They don't have to play the tables of course, its just an option)

I also doubt there would be many people making new accounts every 30 days just to play in fishy microstakes games.
I'm not sure this will be an option. One very good aspect of regulation and ID required to open accounts.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:30 AM   #12
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Re: Segregation of players based on skill - US Online Poker

Please contain any further discussion of PS entry to NJ to this thread:
AGA Attempts to Block PS Entry to NJ

Last edited by PokerXanadu; 03-05-2013 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:14 PM   #13
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Re: Segregation of players based on skill - US Online Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwatt View Post
This Fair Play crap is absolutely awful, but the "beginners tables" Party has/had isnt a terrible idea.

They had those like 8+ years ago IIRC. Nothing over 50nl, and you had to have an account <30 days old.

I don't think many would object to something like that. New Fish get a chance to get their feet wet at micros without sharks gobbling them up instantly. (They don't have to play the tables of course, its just an option)

I also doubt there would be many people making new accounts every 30 days just to play in fishy microstakes games.
This highlights a pretty important point. There is already a filter that keeps the best players from the worst. It's called "stakes", or "table limit".
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:13 PM   #14
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Re: Segregation of players based on skill - US Online Poker

i've thought of several scenarios under which us poker could be regulated yet still unbeatable.

this is definitely one of them.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:33 PM   #15
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Re: Segregation of players based on skill - US Online Poker

Can't really see this being a good thing except for new players, often which get bored and quit - I'd say the people that get addicted and love playing are in the minority so eventually those players just leave anyway...
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