The PPA should not fight for licensing

[ChaosReigns]

Originally Posted by MisterGrizz

And by the way -- online poker has never been illegal. The UIGEA made it illegal for the financial institutions to process online gambling-related transactions. It's never been illegal to play online poker, except in the state of Washington, where for some dumbass reason it's a felony.

If you are a Washington state based gay, online poker player who wants to get married, you can get married now but you still cannot play without it being a felony.

[Cleaner44]

Originally Posted by MisterGrizz

I've read this thread, and I have to ask -- do you want to be able to play or not?

Given the cards we have been dealt and the existing circumstances, the PPA is making the efforts to make sure you have the ability to play freely. Right now, you don't. No other advocacy group has, or will, put forth the efforts on Capitol Hill the PPA is putting forth. Think you can do better? Go for it. Think you can convince our lawmakers to bow out altogether? Be my guest. Never gonna happen.

Consumer protection is, and should be, toward the top of the discussion board when it comes to licensing and regulation. Without it, another Ultimate Bet situation would almost be inevitable at some point. Licensing and regulation would ensure, among other things, that the sites that operate in the U.S. are providing a safe and fair place to play. The potential economic boost -- not just for government tax revenue, but also for job creation -- that comes with licensing and regulation cannot be ignored.

As far as companies coming to the U.S. market that would be willing to pay license application fees, licensing fees, and applicable taxes, no problem there. A line is already being formed.

So, I ask again -- would you rather be able to play freely in a safe and fair environment, or just continue to not be able to play freely at all?

I have to ask, who discovered and solved the Ultimate Bet situation? Was it government regulators? No, it was poker players, it was the free market. The Ultimate Bet situation was discovered and resolved by people at this forum.

If there had been a government regulatory agency in charge of ensuring you a safe and fair environment, the result would have been a statement from the regulators saying "A full investigation was done and there has been no evidence found of wrong-doing by Ultimate Bet."

[KEW]

Originally Posted by Cleaner44

I have to ask, who discovered and solved the Ultimate Bet situation? Was it government regulators? No, it was poker players, it was the free market. The Ultimate Bet situation was discovered and resolved by people at this forum.

If there had been a government regulatory agency in charge of ensuring you a safe and fair environment, the result would have been a statement from the regulators saying "A full investigation was done and there has been no evidence found of wrong-doing by Ultimate Bet."

That word I donot think it means what you think it does...Refresh my memory who's in jail???? Who's been charged with what???

[duh]

Originally Posted by KEW

That word I donot think it means what you think it does...Refresh my memory who's in jail???? Who's been charged with what???

Clearly a typo. He meant solved

[TeflonDawg]

Originally Posted by Cleaner44

I have to ask, who discovered and solved the Ultimate Bet situation? Was it government regulators? No, it was poker players, it was the free market. The Ultimate Bet situation was discovered and resolved by people at this forum.

If there had been a government regulatory agency in charge of ensuring you a safe and fair environment, the result would have been a statement from the regulators saying "A full investigation was done and there has been no evidence found of wrong-doing by Ultimate Bet."

What if the UB perpetrators committed these same crimes in a Las Vegas casino?

We don't know how the UB situation would've been resolved if online poker was under U.S. regulation during that time. You assumption is possible ldo, but for all we know, the threat of jail time and fines might have kept the UB situation from even materializing in the first place.

[Cleaner44]

Originally Posted by TeflonDawg

What if the UB perpetrators committed these same crimes in a Las Vegas casino?

We don't know how the UB situation would've been resolved if online poker was under U.S. regulation during that time. You assumption is possible ldo, but for all we know, the threat of jail time and fines might have kept the UB situation from even materializing in the first place.

I think my earlier post answers that question...

Originally Posted by Cleaner44

Let me introduce you to Bernard Lawrence "Bernie" Madoff, the admitted operator of a Ponzi scheme that is considered to be the largest financial fraud in U.S. history. Bernie defrauded people of BILLIONS of dollars over a period of years, all while being licensed and regulated by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC).

This is not about ensuring a safe and fair place to play.

[ChaosReigns]

I think regulation would not eliminate bad things, but it would reduce it and give players a clear path of legal recourse.

[TeflonDawg]

1. The SEC ≠ the NGC.

2. At the very least, Bernie Madoff is in prison, Russ Hamilton is a free man.

3. What ChaosReigns said.

[DonkeyQuixote]

Originally Posted by TeflonDawg

1. The SEC ≠ the NGC.

2. At the very least, Bernie Madoff is in prison, Russ Hamilton is a free man.

3. What ChaosReigns said.

If a licensee were discovered cheating at a game, the response in Nevada would be to pull the license and criminal prosecution/restitution.

That said, if a Nevada licensee pulled other, non-game crap, like cancelling a heavily advertised "guaranteed" tourney at literally the last minute because it was not going to cover, or a licensee four-walling a poker room to someone who dipped into the advertised tournament prize pool, then justice might not be either sure or swift.

[DonkeyQuixote]

Originally Posted by KEW

That word I donot think it means what you think it does...Refresh my memory who's in jail???? Who's been charged with what???

Better yet, ... anyone think that the "restitution" by UB making cheated players "whole" wasn't simply drawn from the assets available to pay other players ?