Player-Funded PPA Possible?? - Page 4 - Poker Legislation

Jonaspublius · 12-21-2011, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth

Hi Everyone:

It's my opinion that a player funded PPA will not work. There just won't be enough donations. However, as long as the goals of the funders and that of the players match up pretty well, it should be okay.

However, in the past, I now question if this has always been the case. Bringing TheEngineer into the organization was certainly a plus with the players and with 2+2, but having Duke testify in front of Congress, which is something a true player's organization would have never done, was a terrible error which we are all suffering from today.

Also, the PPA needs to be able to operate independently from the organization that provides the money. I can't say for sure, but in the past I now question if the role of Full Tilt Poker was too intertwined with the PPA. Anyone who would have looked at the PPA website on Black Friday and seen all the pictures featuring Full Tilt Management would have asked this question.

On the other hand, it's my opinion that the PPA is needed more than ever, but I do question some of their top leadership. Unfortunately, my knowledge of lobbying is insignificant, so I can't say if they are doing a good job here or not. But when things such as their incorrect skill game argument, and the Duke testimony (which by the way came after both D'Amato and Pappas assured 2+2 management that she would never be used again) are taken in consideration, it does raise questions which are probably healthy to be addressed here.

Best wishes,
Mason

What is your opinion of the desirability/feasibility of an alliance between pro-regulation casinos and the PPA? I know it is a stretch, but I see no alternative that combines popular support in numbers with insider clout+money. Will players get a great deal? Probably not. But, the current landscape is so bleak, do we have a choice? PPA decisions have played out to leave "players" no where to turn, but to the casinos.

You point to the Duke testimony, I point to the hiring of lobbyists and ignoring
of popular organizing. Were affiliate farmers, site operators, and the player base fooled by professional lobbyists looking for a paycheck? Probably. But, the past is done.

You say we need the PPA now more than ever, I agree. But where do we turn for funding? Most of the ideas I toss around in my head seem too crazy to even write, except for turning to the casinos that want this. Someone should remind them some sites were PROFITING seven figures a day.........and ask why they can't walk to shareholders or tycoons and stake a few paltry, tax deductible millions on +EV lobbying.

The one thing the PPA has done is to show lawmakers there is popular, albeit lukewarm, acceptance of poker as non-nefarious. All we need is a steady, organized, coherent voice. It takes money.

ChaosReigns · 12-22-2011, 10:54 AM

One thing that might help in getting more people to pony up money for a membership is to demonstrate that the PPA organization has state level leaders. The PPA may, or may not, have such leaders but you cannot tell by looking at the PPA website.

**Regret$** · 12-23-2011, 01:10 PM

I'm not sure why it would make sense to marginalize your membership number. It is very valuable if for marketing purposes.

Jonaspublius · 12-23-2011, 06:10 PM

Mason, I know it's Christmas and other holidays, but with the DoJ letter snuck in on the lowest watched news cycle of the year, I think the issue just catapulted in importance. You're handling of the PPA "endorsement" to try and ensure it was for player interests was much appreciated, at least by me, and I would like to hear your opinion on how the PPA can acquire the kind of money/backing it needs going forward with this new development. The window on opportunity may be narrow.

driller · 12-26-2011, 10:32 AM

After BF, I did make a donation to the PPA. For months, I tried to get a password to log on to their site as a member, but was not successful. I kept getting emails, apologising and even offering ball caps and T-shirts. The last was in August:

"I will get a hat mailed out to you with the next batch on Friday. I have also sent an inquiry to our IT people as to why you have not been given access to the site. Regardless I will set it up so you have access by 5PM tonight, because this never should have happened. I sincerely apologize for the delay. Did you ever receive our membership packet with the PPA chip protector? If not please contact me directly at Dave@theppa.org and I will get one sent out this afternoon. Thank you for your patience and have a great day."

They still have my email address, because I get emails from them all the time.

Anyway I finally just gave up. Even though I played a lot, I was never better than a break even player and overall have been a loser at poker. I just like to play.

But it is the publishers, the pro players, the coaches, and the sites themselves...in other words the people that are making a living from poker that need to carry the load on this as far as I am concerned.

I just hope that everyone realizes that the plight of online poker players isn't very high on the national agenda right now. At least 95% of the people in this country just don't care.

**TheEngineer** · 12-26-2011, 02:52 PM

Driller,

Sorry to hear that. I've alerted Dave to this to address it.

ChaosReigns · 12-26-2011, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEngineer

Driller,

Sorry to hear that. I've alerted Dave to this to address it.

Is Dave the guy hired to see this sort of thing did not happen again? And it seemed to have happened again.

**TheEngineer** · 12-26-2011, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosReigns

Is Dave the guy hired to see this sort of thing did not happen again? And it seemed to have happened again.

I will continue to push for improvement in this area.

DonkeyQuixote · 12-26-2011, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEngineer

I will continue to push for improvement in this area.

Nevermind, if the message did not stick the first serveral times you tried, perhaps the PPA's heart is not really into member services.

jld426 · 12-26-2011, 11:55 PM

seems like a good idea.

jld426 · 12-26-2011, 11:56 PM

would be a lot of work to get done tho

**TheEngineer** · 12-27-2011, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonkeyQuixote

Nevermind, if the message did not stick the first serveral times you tried, perhaps the PPA's heart is not really into member services.

The message stuck fine. We do what we can with what we have.

LetsGambool · 12-27-2011, 09:20 AM

Besides TE, Pappas, and Skall (who is more volunteer than employee), I can't figure out what anyone working for the PPA actually does tbh.

ChaosReigns · 12-27-2011, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEngineer

The message stuck fine. We do what we can with what we have.

It is a vicious circle. You could improve customer service if you had more paying members, but you will not have more paying members until you improve customer service.

ppadave · 12-27-2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driller

After BF, I did make a donation to the PPA. For months, I tried to get a password to log on to their site as a member, but was not successful. I kept getting emails, apologising and even offering ball caps and T-shirts. The last was in August:

"I will get a hat mailed out to you with the next batch on Friday. I have also sent an inquiry to our IT people as to why you have not been given access to the site. Regardless I will set it up so you have access by 5PM tonight, because this never should have happened. I sincerely apologize for the delay. Did you ever receive our membership packet with the PPA chip protector? If not please contact me directly at Dave@theppa.org and I will get one sent out this afternoon. Thank you for your patience and have a great day."

They still have my email address, because I get emails from them all the time.

Anyway I finally just gave up. Even though I played a lot, I was never better than a break even player and overall have been a loser at poker. I just like to play.

But it is the publishers, the pro players, the coaches, and the sites themselves...in other words the people that are making a living from poker that need to carry the load on this as far as I am concerned.

I just hope that everyone realizes that the plight of online poker players isn't very high on the national agenda right now. At least 95% of the people in this country just don't care.

Driller, If you contact me directly at Dave@theppa.org I will be happy to take care of this for you. I will need your name and email address in order to fix the issue. I am sure you are sick of hearing apologies so please send me an email and allow me to fix this for you.

Thank you for your past support and I hope that settling this issue will demonstrate the PPA's dedication to member satisfaction.