I have been wondering for a little while about this since sites such as clubwpt are legal in the US. Sorry if this is the wrong place.

What if someone created a poker tournament site in the same way as sites such as clubwpt where you pay a certain amount of money and you get to enter freerolls to win real money but in a little different of a format:

Say for example there are 4 levels
I. equivalent to a 1 dollar buyin tournament
II. 5 dollar buyin tournament
III. 10 dollar buyin tournament
IV. 20 dollar buy in tournament.

A person, once they choose their level, choose how many freerolls they can buy in to beforehand for a month(then the extra amount can rollforward to the next month). Let's say they choose 10 freerolls in a month at level II. They pay 50 dollars plus whatever the site fee may be lets say 5 dollars.

Then base these "freerolls" prizepool on that level and the amount of players in each freeroll.

I don't see much of a difference between this and the other legal poker clubs. I know you guys know more about this than me so that's why I'd figure I'd ask. Let me know if you can't follow what I am saying.

Methinks you have not really studied the model of sites like clubwpt.

A free roll is hardly free if you are paying to enter it.

Also, these sites are not legal in the entire US. As they base their play on a "sweepstakes" model they must comply with the sweepstakes laws of the feds and the 50 states. You will note that no site accepts play from all 50 states. There are also some unique state laws that work against these sites (laws like "it is illegal to play cards for money").

If you want more information and advice on this I charge $250 per hour and expect at least $2,500 as an upfront retainer.

Skallagrim

fyp, we don't need another bar ethics thread started:

ABA Model Rule 703(c):

(c) Every written, recorded or electronic communication from a lawyer soliciting professional employment from a prospective client known to be in need of legal services in a particular matter shall include the words "Advertising Material" on the outside envelope, if any, and at the beginning and ending of any recorded or electronic communication, unless the recipient of the communication is a person specified in paragraphs (a)(1) [a lawyer] or (a)(2) [a family member, close personal friend or prior client].

(1) Skalla was joking; (2) there are serious First Amendment issues with Rule 703(c); and (3) the model rules are just that, models, and states have their own rules which may differ.

No ethics problem in THIS thread.

Yeah, "methinks" or some other Ron Burgundyish phrase generally is one of his tells when he is joking.

As Skallagrim said, altering the purchase structure of entry fees doesn't make them free rolls, and in states like Florida "whoever plays or engages in any game at cards... for money or other thing of value, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor", and Oregon specifically lists Texas Hold Em as a prohibited game.

While cash game poker is widely considered gambling, since the prizes are awarded based on the result of a single hand, tournament poker has been ruled a contest of skill and even a 'sport' in some jurisdictions.

However, there are many states which forbid contests, tournaments and skilled gaming with entry fees and/or prizes: Arizona, Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Iowa, Louisiana, Maryland, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee and Vermont.

So a tournament only poker site would probably be legal under the laws of ~30 states, but there's another catch, the UIGEA doesn't need a state law violation as a trigger, it can also be triggered by a federal law violation.

The reason that is an issue is that the IGBA, unlike the UIGEA, can be triggered by a violation local laws, So even if you are operating legally under Wisconsin law e.g., if the city of Oshkosh has a law prohibiting Texas Holdem tournaments, you would technically be committing a felony by accepting players from that city.

The answer to your question reveals just how convoluted the laws are regarding poker, and what an impossible position those laws put any business into that wishes to simply offer even simple computerized small stakes home games to U.S. customers.

I have the feeling that when a jury hears what a mess the government made, attempting to apply local gambling laws to the internet, they will be reluctant to convict anyone for doing it, and since Congress has given states over 5 years to make their position clear in regards to internet gambling, those states which have failed to do so are going to have their position made for them (or at least given a hard deadline to opt out).

Another tell is when someone's posts become more obnoxious (than usual) as the day goes by.

I'm still baffled by the fact I can play McDonald's Monopoly game by buying stuff to get game pieces, but I can't join ClubWPT by sending in a postcard every month. All due to my state laws.

I've written my representatives asking for an explanation and they say talk to a state agency. I write that state agency and they say talk to my reps. Now I know what a dog chasing their tail feels like.

Getting off my soapbox now.