A Glimpse into the PPA and reality in America

[PokerXanadu]

Most industries sell goods and the competitive consumer market largely keeps them in line. Yet they still need to be regulated by government in many aspects for public health and welfare - things like employee and product safety. Imagine if the auto industry did not have to issue government ordered safety recalls - there would be a lot more consumer injuries and deaths due to design and manufacture defects. Bars and restaurants are government monitored for cleanliness, among other things, and are subject to labor laws and regulations that protect their employees from abuses.

Service industries tend to be heavily regulated by state and local governments to protect employees and consumers. Ever have a new roof put on by an unlicensed contractor? Would you use an electrician who doesn't have a license to re-wire your house? Care to have your hair cut by someone without training and a license? Go to a doctor who hasn't a degree nor license to practice? A lawyer who hasn't passed the state bar?

Industries which are involved in large amounts of money transfers and hold customer funds are highly regulated by the federal government, for the control of organized crime, protection of consumer funds and health of the financial system. The pitfalls of an unregulated financial market and unregulated financial industries are rife and obvious.

Letting it all fall to market forces is about the worst thing you can do for consumers. Owners and companies do not operate for the good of the consumer on their own, even in the face of open market competition. Free market forces are not enough to force them to, as shown over and over again by historical example.

The ideal of a completely free market being the best possible world is about as silly as the ideal of a completely socialist society. They sound good on paper, but fail in implementation because people do not act selflessly for the good of all.

There is a necessary and vital role for government regulation and Internet poker is one industry that begs for it, to protect the players. One need only read the unending revelations of poker site scandals as found in the Internet Poker forum to discover why.

This doesn't mean that I support the Reid/Kyl bill - I don't. And certainly you have some good points of how to approach state-by-state legislation. You just go overboard in demanding "freedom" imo: 'no regulation' does not equate to good for the consumer.

[SamuraiPlaya]

Excellent feedback Xanadu but I really am not say no regulation, only limited regulation. I agree markets and business need to be held accountable to certain business standards and to do that there has to be bodies/branches of the Gov't that does this but in terms of online poker I suggest this is done state by state and it is a limited amount of control and influence in the Market.

Quick example:

- We the people of the State of Ohio put together Legislation allowing online poker to be completely legal in our State.

- We make a list of set rules and regulations that are fair and balanced that says any person or business can open a site in our State as long as they meet the requirements.(details of those requirements are also fair and balanced and when I have more time I will draft an initial idea for the list). The Ohio land based sites pay a set yearly license fee as well as standard corporate taxes as well as employees of that site following the same laws all workers in our state follow.

-Outside the US sites can apply for a license and be accepted on a year to year basis where they also will pay a fee(perhaps slightly higher than in state sites(details determined later as well) and they will agree to be completely transparent in terms of players winnings and losses so that Ohio citizens will pay a normal tax on winnings at years end. States that follow the same model will enjoy a multi-State/multi-international player pool which is good for everyone involved.

-All sites will also be required to pay a federal license fee yearly as well as an agreed upon tax based on the amount of business/traffic that they obtain from each State. DO NOT tell me that this is too difficult ! We live in an age of advanced communication and technology and these things would be very easy to set up.

-The entire thing would and should be complete public record and transparent for all the obvious and fair reasons.

This thing could be done and it could solve a lot of issues and it is very fair. It gives players a competitive arena to choose from many sites/options, it opens the market to allow competition to drive advancement and customer service which would also be good for the customer. It also would generate tax revenues at the State and Federal levels by Fees and corporate taxes from the sites as well as jobs created and income tax generated from winning players as well as stimulate the economies and generate new markets from advertising and partnerships that would be created. A new poker boom like no other would be created !

It is a solvable equation as I said before but not when there are the variables of big corporations and politicians want all the of it to themselves !

Originally Posted by LetsGambool

Uhhh, as much as I like playing a little poker online, Im not really ready to die for it. Sorry.

And it is not about poker, it is being willing to die if you have to in order to not allow these special self-serving interest groups, big corporations and Gov't to tell us what we can and cannot do with our money ! Which is exactly what is happening here..

[Doc T River]

Or more people could become more politically active.

[Mr.McNitt]

And it is not about poker, it is being willing to die if you have to in order to not allow these special self-serving interest groups, big corporations and Gov't to tell us what we can and cannot do with our money ! Which is exactly what is happening here..

but if all the people who oppose the self-serving interest groups die, who will then fight their fight? Will the self-serving interest groups not be unopposed?

[driller]

Originally Posted by SamuraiPlaya

Sure let him delete posts, and if you open your eyes you will realize this kind of thing is why we do not have online poker !

Our country continuously moves toward Communist/socialist control not only in the media but in all areas of our society. So sure delete posts that offer thinkin and ideas etc if they oppose your idealism.

The real answer is that we do not need any regulation at all at the Federal or Local level other than the normal Governing bodies of Taxation already set Laws that all businesses follow.

Let the sites be to do business on an open and free market the way this country was intended to be. Tax the sites a set fee and hold US citizens accountable to pay taxes on profits at years end. In terms of ethics, Parents are responsible to not allow their children to gamble online before age 18 and once 18 years old I should be able to freely do with my own money what I want as long as it does not directly hurt my neighbor.

There, problem solved. Oh wait that is just too easy and would put a whole lot of these Lobbyist and Politicians and self serving interest groups out of business.

I speak the truth and what is and should be right for the masses and the people. The PPA speaks in terms of compromise. There is not and should not be any compromise ! We are a Govt "For the people and by the people" and until we stand up for what is right we will have to keep sitting and watching as these Elitist groups keep telling us what they think is right because they want to own and control it.

PokerStars will accept funds from most of the countries on the planet, including the "communist and socialist" ones.

[EllaMc]

Here's the thing: You are talking about a whole system of government and how you would like to see it change, or go back to the way it once was. Most of us who post and belong to the PPA do so b/c we would like to play internet poker, and we are not in a position to wish it into being an open system where one can just open a site.

You can try that - open a poker site -- see how long it lasts in the US, and if you can even get banks to cooperate by processing funds. Most processors will not process poker funds in the US. So logistically right now, it would be pretty hard to actually build and open a site in the US - legally or not.

But I digress. My point was this: you have your ideals on the way the whole country, maybe even world, should work - and you'd like the PPA and the way it organizes to fit into that worldview.

I'd bet that many of us here have very very very different feelings about many things from politics to religion to plant-based diets.

The PPA doesn't want to start a war on 2+2 I don't think. I think they want a group of disparate Americans come together in support of the ONE thing we all DO agree on: that we'd like to play internet poker from/in the US without fear of losing all of our money if we do.

It's a concise yet still rather lofty goal - with plenty of work to be done. 50 States with 50 different constituencies with 50 different (and ever-changing) governments -- all of which share one thing: people living in said state that want their internet poker back.

Many of us probably work toward other political and civic goals. We may even be working against each other in those other situations, but in this ONE place, we share this one goal: to play internet poker again in the US without fear of our bankrolls being seized overnight. So legally is the way most seem to think would be the best way to safeguard our bankrolls.

We can rail on about freedom and the republic and big gov't and gov't cheese or whatever, but the reality here is that we all want the same thing for the most part, and we're trying to work together to get that one thing back, in some working form.

/end babble

[curtinsea]

You can't complain about the PPA and say what should be done differently if that is all you have to offer. Organize a committee yourself, step up to the fight and engage.

If you think something better can be done, the do it.