Estimated amount of players with just Nevada up?

[DonkeyQuixote]

Originally Posted by VP$IP

A very significant source of "recreational" players might be McCarran International Airport. The number of man-hours wasted while waiting for plane departures is enormous. Instead of playing slot machines at the airport, they could play poker on their own computers or in airport concessions. Who would not want to play internet poker at the same table with them?

Another potential source of visiting poker players could be truckers and other drivers crossing the state on I-80. Many would quickly learn to plan their stops in Nevada, rather than in CA, UT, or WY when Nevada-only internet poker becomes available.

I expect that those "transient truckers" who are predisposed to dally in Nevada, especially in those counties where brothels are legal along I-80, have already "learned" how to schedule stops.

With respect to airport lounge denizens, ... A few years back, I had discussions with some facilities with an even better pool of lounging potential players who were sitting all day, with rented hand-held mobile devices at ready. Unfortunately, NASCAR did not agree.

Fortunately, to the extent that US operators develop mobile poker access, you WILL see the extreme casual player simply looking for some quick action and playing WAY too loose.

[johnboy7541]

Originally Posted by knircky

Why?

Makes no sense. All facts show the opposite.

1. Us player crush any other country on avg
2. Row sites have been softer than us sites.
3. Row sites became softer after bf
4. No country in the world except england and macau has 24/7 poker. There are over 600 24/7 pokerrooms in us/ca. The avg pokerroom in eu has less than 5 tables.
5. Wherever you play live in foreign countries players are far worse than in US
6. In Germany a 5/10 game playes like 1/2 in us. In Macau local folks call 4bets with a9 and stack off 300bb against tight euro pros on a flop.
7. U compare Ca to Row. That makes no sense. ca =us when it comes to poker culture.

So now u think the people of Nevada who grow up gambling are gonna be worse than ROW poker players?

Makes no sense!

All assumption about why us pool would be softer than row are flat out wrong and mostly the opposite is true.

At the same time the size of the player pool is the most important factor for a healthy poker economy that caters to recreational players and regs alike and allows play on different levels and games.


Again use some common sense please.

I'm not sure if you're leveling or not, but you are way off base when you say that American's will crush ROW players. It is definitely the other way around.

In another post you stated:

Originally Posted by knircky

The point is: Poker has a much deeper history into the US culture, thus more people will play it better than the world average.

and it appears your assumptions of American's being superior poker players stems from this. While I agree with you that poker, and specifically NLHE has a deeper history in the U.S., that doesn't mean that U.S. players will be better. The main way you get better at poker is by studying it. Not by playing it or watching the pro's play on TV. So just because there are many American's who play home games more often with their fish friends or watch WSOP donkaments, it doesn't mean that they are going to be good. It's actually the opposite. We have more rec players who think they're better than they actually are, and try to pull off some retarded river bluff because they saw Durrr do something similar on TV once.

Let's also remember that post-UIGEA and pre-Black Friday many American fish were scared to deposit, and many of those who tried were unsuccessful as many credit cards as well as other methods were frequently declined. Simple fact is that fish need to deposit, and when that's hard/impossible they can't play. So the American player base during this period was skewed more towards regs. Even with issues depositing and a player base skewed towards regs, U.S. players still lost money at a high rate (source: http://www.pokertableratings.com/top-countries). According to this data (yes 1 study isn't enough but it still shows something), the U.S. loss rate was higher than many other countries and at -$8.03/100, it was higher than the world average at -$6.33/100.

Another reason to believe there will be more American fish once regulation comes is that American's have more disposable income than any other country (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ersonal_income). All these factors will lead to higher fish:reg ratio's, and it's in our best interest to not let ROW players onto our sites. If we want larger player pools let's push for expanding to other states.

[VP$IP]

Michael Gaughan Airport Slots is listed as the current airport slots concession holder, and Michael Gaughan's South Point is also an applicant for Nevada-only internet poker. Poker and slots can obviously coexist in the same location. So I expect McCarran Airport to be a source of recreational Nevada-only internet poker players.

What is not known yet is what form the marketing will take. Could players register at the airport, or must registration take place in advance at the casino? Will airport advertising and registration be non-existent, passive or active?

Same thing for the I-80 corridor. It is 410 miles of heavily traveled marketing opportunity, in both directions. The marketing could range from nothing at all, to a few discrete road signs, to manned registration kiosks with "incentives" for registration and/or deposits.

Both could provide more than just additional numbers of players to Nevada-only internet poker. They could provide a renewable resource of transient recreational players. Not pros. Not nits. Recreational players.

It could make the difference between profit and loss.

[sba9630]

Originally Posted by VP$IP

...Another potential source of visiting poker players could be truckers and other drivers crossing the state on I-80. Many would quickly learn to plan their stops in Nevada, rather than in CA, UT, or WY when Nevada-only internet poker becomes available.

I wonder if the technology Nevada plans to utilize will be able to tell if someone is stationary or mobile?

[knircky]

Great post johnboy7541 and no I am not leveling. Finally some facts and good logic.

So I see your point, that Americans lose more than the rest of the world and we don't want this money to go out of the country but rather keep it for ourselves. I find nothing wrong with that.

You sited two sources. I would like to take a look at each:

most importantly: http://www.pokertableratings.com/top-countries

the U.S. loss rate was higher than many other countries and at -$8.03/100, it was higher than the world average at -$6.33/100.

To me this actually says the exact opposite of what you are saying. The US folks lose relative little compared to the rest of the world.

It is true that the US is richer than the average world and has the highest disposable income according to your wiki source.

I would also like to point you to here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...al)_per_capita

and here: http://www.financetwitter.com/2011/0...lionaires.html

The pokertablerating site does not distinguish between different levels. Naturally americans are gonna play higher than other countries. US folks are like 4 times as rich as Russians, prolly twice as rich as most Germans etc.

Take a look at Switzerland, these guys really have money and they are losing twice as much as Americans.

Germans are way poorer and gambling is very foreign. They are also very nitty in general and are not going to gamble as high on avg as Americans. A normal cell bill in Germany is like 50 Euro, where here it is 3 times that much. I am pretty sure though that the difference on the $/hand will come from them player lower limits.

It would be interested to look into that for sure.

Anyway i believe you can't just compare that $/hand you have to take into account that US folks are gonna play higher. Especially the folks that are used to play in casinos. They are gonna play their same 1/2 game online. I play lots live and have asked many folks about online, they all hated it (cuz they lost) and they all played 2/5 online as well (my main game).

Think about the 150M Tilt owed to US playes and only 300 to the ROW players. On average the US players play much higher thus will also lose more on avg.

That does not come from the fact that Americans are richer but also that they are used to gambling and using money to gamble a lot more than most EU countries.

So if you only want to play one game i.e. 50NL, yea then your NV pool is gonna be fine. However if you want a healthy poker eco-pyramid with many types of games and many levels than a large pool is essential and will help more players find a game they are comfortable with. That's why the large pools are so important. If you are a high stakes player its important that that swiss guy can play against you. If you like tournaments you need the masses to get you the fun price pools.

Why is the WSOP so awesome: because every day there are 3-4k players in the Rio. Compare that to you avg poker room feeling. Makes for a big difference.
go to Europe and play in these rooms with 2-4 tables and you get the same difference. And play on stars vs cake and its the same story.

So yes, I agree your 50nl game is gonna get harder with a larger player pool I think. But there are more games than that. I like to have a casino more than just 1/2 NL spread and i'd like online rooms with more choices. The bigger the pyramid the easier it is for recreational players to enter.

Yes it will be easier to dominate in a smaller world. It was always easy for me to beat everybody in computer games until I played online. So much is true but overall for the average player experience it will be better the bigger the player pool. And by the way that is true for the players, operators and government.

The overall economy is so important, especially since we are getting started. If there is no revenue there will be no incentive to grow the market. If there are no games no one can play it regularly.

I would love to play online still on merge or cake, but i can't. The pool is too small for me to grind like I would before. A player pool only for US players will always be too small, even when many states will be pooled.

[DonkeyQuixote]

Originally Posted by VP$IP

Michael Gaughan Airport Slots is listed as the current airport slots concession holder, and Michael Gaughan's South Point is also an applicant for Nevada-only internet poker. Poker and slots can obviously coexist in the same location. So I expect McCarran Airport to be a source of recreational Nevada-only internet poker players.

What is not known yet is what form the marketing will take. Could players register at the airport, or must registration take place in advance at the casino? Will airport advertising and registration be non-existent, passive or active?

Same thing for the I-80 corridor. It is 410 miles of heavily traveled marketing opportunity, in both directions. The marketing could range from nothing at all, to a few discrete road signs, to manned registration kiosks with "incentives" for registration and/or deposits.

Both could provide more than just additional numbers of players to Nevada-only internet poker. They could provide a renewable resource of transient recreational players. Not pros. Not nits. Recreational players.

It could make the difference between profit and loss.

The Chairman of the Nevada Gaming Commission clearly anticipates availabliity/marketing to transient players, i.e. tourists.

I also think that a favorable online poker experience of "tourists" will be echoed back home, perhaps prompting a greater impetus for action by other States. So, hopefully, the marketing you will see to tourists will be extremely generous, to create brand loyalty and cross-promote other aspects of their vacation experience ..... or ...

maybe just the Moonlight Bunny Ranch will take a unique take on the Venitian's Tao cross-promotion of recreational opportunities: i.e. "Always a Happy Ending".

[LT22]

US likely HAD a higher reg:fish ratio on April 14, 2011. Many fish were either sick of online poker, found it too difficult to deposit, had no $ due to economy, or thought it was illegal. Make it legal, easy to deposit, improve the economy and you automatically improve the reg:fish ratio to a lower ratio.

Having a bigger player pool=good, but I'm not sure I want non-US players. These sites will be US based. Many non-US fish will probably never play on these sites. How hard would the sites attack immediate expansion in foreign countries? Etc etc etc. Non-US regs will def sign up IF the games are good enough to overcome taxes (which they may or may not have to pay on winnings from offshore sites such as Stars).

This is, of course, all speculative. We're ALL speculating about things that we have no clue. I just forsee a disproportionate amount of non-US regs signing up compared to non-US fish.

[novahunterpa]

Whats important is having at least the minimal number for NV sites to thrive. There is some critical minimal number of players needed to ensure players can quickly find the type of games/stakes they what to play without waiting 2 hours for a game to fill.

As long as the sites have enough players to fill the needs of the players then any more is just gravy. Once a site reaches that critical number (w/e that number is) having more players may be good but those extra numbers are negligible to the player experience. PS for ex has exceeded that critical number, you can more or less find enough players to play any game,SnG, or MTT. If PS tripled the number of players it would not really be any different then now for the avg player.

As long as NV sites can hit that critical mass of players the sites will thrive and players will be happy. The question is can any NV sites hit that critical number without added players from other jurisdictions. I don't know if NV only sites will or will not generate enough players for one site to thrive let alone several. It will interesting watching how it all plays out.

[sajeffe]

Originally Posted by tangled

I think a lot of opinions about player pools have to do with personal expectations. Those that are used to playing 24+ tables are going to be more concerned about a Nevada-only site.

And those who play something other than nlhe.

[knircky]

Originally Posted by novahunterpa

Whats important is having at least the minimal number for NV sites to thrive. There is some critical minimal number of players needed to ensure players can quickly find the type of games/stakes they what to play without waiting 2 hours for a game to fill.

As long as the sites have enough players to fill the needs of the players then any more is just gravy. Once a site reaches that critical number (w/e that number is) having more players may be good but those extra numbers are negligible to the player experience. PS for ex has exceeded that critical number, you can more or less find enough players to play any game,SnG, or MTT. If PS tripled the number of players it would not really be any different then now for the avg player.

As long as NV sites can hit that critical mass of players the sites will thrive and players will be happy. The question is can any NV sites hit that critical number without added players from other jurisdictions. I don't know if NV only sites will or will not generate enough players for one site to thrive let alone several. It will interesting watching how it all plays out.

What you are saying is theoretically true. However practically this threshold is impossible to be reached by NV.

As a reference I have trouble finding the games i'd like on stars today.

I play 50-100NL and $5-$50 tournaments.

On FT I was never able to get the amount of tournaments going that i wanted ($24 buy ins) and constantly had to play $10 tourneys.

On stars I have the same problem today when i don't play in absolute peak hours.

The only tourneys that run consistently on stars are the 1$ to 2.5$ 180s on starts. Even 4$ does not run in a manner that you can grind it in off hours.

I am a micro stakes player and I am having trouble finding the games I need on stars today.

Sure I have no trouble finding my 50nl 6max or 9max game. But go up a few levels and you can't even find enough 5-10 games on stars these days.

What about other games than NL cash.

Fact is there is no threshold. The bigger the better. The most important factor for awesome player experience is the player pool. Other factors like software will work themselves out, but if the player pools are segregated that is going to negatively impact the games, player experience and the eco system as a whole tremendously.

I would happily play on merge or cake these days. But i can't really because the player pools are so low. I cant even find enough 50nl games there some times and 100nl most of the time.

I can't imagine how someone feels that wants to do this for a real living.... someone who wants to play 5-10NL and tournaments with buy ins of a few hundred $.

[knircky]

As a reference it is sunday afternoon on the east coste 2PM.

I decided to play some online mtts, thinking sunday afternoon should be a good day to do so.

I play any mtt between 5-30$ and i found a stagering 1 tourney on merge and 3 on cake that i am playing right now.

The cash games are looking just as bad by the way.

It just shows how important a healthy player pool is.

[TeflonDawg]

imo a Sunday Ten Million >>>>>>>>> Sunday Million >>> Merge's Sunday $125,000 and trumps the variance that an extra reg or two add

[TeflonDawg]

and it's not like the ROW doesn't have uber fish too...

[raradevils]

Originally Posted by knircky

As a reference it is sunday afternoon on the east coste 2PM.

I decided to play some online mtts, thinking sunday afternoon should be a good day to do so.

I play any mtt between 5-30$ and i found a stagering 1 tourney on merge and 3 on cake that i am playing right now.

The cash games are looking just as bad by the way.

It just shows how important a healthy player pool is.

I don't know if you can compare today's online play with what will be once it's regulated and legit. It would also be different if people were easily able to play/deposit and could get money off without delays.

It is also in the beginning/middle of summer. So your player pool will be watered down. Most people are outside enjoying the weather.

[t_roy]

One thing that has been left out is that it is BECAUSE the US has a history of poker that there will be more fish here. As has already been stated, people are not better as a result of this. Since the culture exists people in the US will flock to fully regulated online poker. These people will have played poker, but they will be absolute fish.

I believe all other arguments have already been made so I'll leave it there. Of course, only regs are playing now. That is what you should expect in this legal environment.