does the tea party support online poker?

[CountingMyOuts]

Originally Posted by Jonaspublius

Really? Unfortunately, dogma prevails at the top. Armey is really meaningless as he will never again ascend elective office. The real leaders going forward will be the ultra rich donors and the ones who win in November. All the national ticket Tea Partiers are hardline christian conservatives. No abortion even for rape or incest unites them. Polling shows self identified tea partiers are a majority christian conservative. The demographics match up almost exactly for tea partiers and christian conservatives as well. Its not a question of "true believer" fiscal minded "tea partiers" reclaiming the GOP from christian fanatics. This is the christian fanatics are taking over the GOP with THEIR candidates. Remember when Tony Perkins threatened to run if an "unacceptable" Republican looked likely to win the primary, or if John McCain dared stray very far? He doesn't have to now, he has Palin, Santorum, and Bachman, et al. Rove woke them up with targeted get out the vote activity in 2000 and bringing them into the power fold. Social media fueled what was already brewing from that. This ain't a Cato Institute revolution. Where is this push going to come from move them from christian conservatism? Give me one leader running for office in 2010 who will influence the Tea Party away from social conservatism?

+1

Frankly, the Tea Party has in part simply been a way for socially conservative Republicans to rebrand themselves after souring on the GOP. I don't see the Tea Party being our salvation on the poker issue.

[TheEngineer]

Originally Posted by Jonaspublius

Really? Unfortunately, dogma prevails at the top. Armey is really meaningless as he will never again ascend elective office. The real leaders going forward will be the ultra rich donors and the ones who win in November. All the national ticket Tea Partiers are hardline christian conservatives. No abortion even for rape or incest unites them.

IMO, that's more reflective of the ascendancy of the pro-life position in American politics than it is of anything else.

Polling shows self identified tea partiers are a majority christian conservative.

Surprising. I had figured they'd be majority liberal Zoroastrians.

The demographics match up almost exactly for tea partiers and christian conservatives as well. Its not a question of "true believer" fiscal minded "tea partiers" reclaiming the GOP from christian fanatics. This is the christian fanatics are taking over the GOP with THEIR candidates. Remember when Tony Perkins threatened to run if an "unacceptable" Republican looked likely to win the primary, or if John McCain dared stray very far? He doesn't have to now, he has Palin, Santorum, and Bachman, et al.

This isn't the shocking development you seem to think. Rather, every time the modern GOP finds itself out of power, it reconstitutes itself as a party of limited government, as we saw in the run-up to the 1994 elections. This way, a temporary coalition of limited government types and those who want only to limit the power of Democrats is formed. Once in power, the GOP shifts over time to be a big government party itself, kowtowing largely to the wing seeking moral issue statism while paying lip-service only to limited government principles (mostly as talking points used in opposition to Democratic legislative proposals). Once the coalition fractures and the GOP loses power, the process repeats.

[ktulu22]

Originally Posted by Skallagrim

The issue for this forum is whether the emergence of the Tea Party makes our poker agenda more or less likely to pass. So far I see it as more likely to hurt our chances because I don't believe the majority of the current Tea Party candidates will hesitate to expand government to further their (prior) commitment to a "conservative" social agenda. I also continue to hope I am wrong about that.

Skallagrim

+1 - Less government unless it is legislating morality, which many of them will be all for

[CountingMyOuts]

A recent survey (http://www.publicreligion.org/research/?id=386) done showed that:

* Nearly half (47%) also say they are part of the religious right or conservative Christian movement. Among the more than 8-in-10 (81%) who identify as Christian within the Tea Party movement, 57% also consider themselves part of the Christian conservative movement.

* They make up just 11% of the adult population—half the size of the conservative Christian movement (22%).

If this survey is representative of the Tea Party, I would not expect any help from them on our agenda.

[ncboiler]

First I am grunching:

The Tea Party seems to be the fiscal side of the Libertarian Party. As far as the social side of it, where I believe the poker issue will fall, they probably hold there own individual beliefs and don't see it as a party issue.

[Jonaspublius]

Originally Posted by ktulu22

+1 - Less government unless it is legislating morality, which many of them will be all for

One thing I went back and reread was the 2004 endorsement of The Economist of John Kerry. It was a reluctant one, but they had read the "tea" leaves long before most of us. The excited, ill-educated children Of Liberty University, AEI, and homeunschooling across the country had found a language and fervor to connect to. Karl Rove let them in the White House and began teaching them political operations. It was only a matter of time until they began to compete for electoral office in the Republican world. You saw it in the VA governor and AG races, the upstate NY special election, and on FoxNews. Abortion, Christian nation, lower spending, less regulation, lower taxes, and guns are what they preach, and they have found a market. Focus grouped and bankrolled, they have spread out and will keep claiming scalps until people are revulsed at what they attempt in power. This is not even the Ron Paul movement. Gone are the attacks on the banking system, Real ID, federal intimidation agencies, no foreign wars, and going back to the gold standard. Watch what the "tea party" tries to pass if marijuana is regulated in California. THEN, tell me these ****jobs will "let" you "sin" clicking away your house.

[JohnWilkes]

So much for keeping politic unrelated to poker out of this forum.

[TheEngineer]

Originally Posted by JohnWilkes

So much for keeping politic unrelated to poker out of this forum.

I think it's related. We're trying to figure out if the Tea Party movement is pro-poker or anti-poker. As there is no formal statement (by definition -- there is no central structure), it makes sense to weigh their statements, history, and overall guiding principles to figure out how we are viewed by the movement.

[Jonaspublius]

Another good though that popped in my head. Someone should call and ask for the numbers/emails collected by people supporting prop19. Should be in our demographic. If signatures or money or volunteers are needed as well for a California effort.

[TheEngineer]

Originally Posted by Jonaspublius

Another good though that popped in my head. Someone should call and ask for the numbers/emails collected by people supporting prop19. Should be in our demographic. If signatures or money or volunteers are needed as well for a California effort.

Good idea. They are public record, IIRC.

[Grasshopp3r]

Both the MJ community and to a lesser degree, the homosexual rights communities are natural partners for our cause. We can also look at what they have done historically that have advanced their issues and how they have organized. We also must not ignore the teachings of Saul Alinsky and other community organizers.

[banonlinepoker]

The TP is not a living breathing thing. It's been twisted around my MSNBC into some far right nutjob agenda. Funny how now Sarah Palin got beat by Chris Christie in the first straw poll in VA. He is far from Sharron Angle (not Susan) et all.

As for how does people that consider themselves TP think of online poker? Mostly they aren't going to care since most are older and don't play but as long as taxes are low and they are being taxed by who they elect it's a non issue. You should be more worried about the people in CA who think it's going to hurt the B&M profit.

[JohnWilkes]

The home schoolers are natural allies of ours. We both want government out of our lives.

[CountingMyOuts]

Originally Posted by banonlinepoker

As for how does people that consider themselves TP think of online poker? Mostly they aren't going to care since most are older and don't play but as long as taxes are low and they are being taxed by who they elect it's a non issue. You should be more worried about the people in CA who think it's going to hurt the B&M profit.

When close to 50% of the TP is made up of people who consider themselves part of the religious right or conservative Christian movement (http://www.publicreligion.org/research/?id=386), I would hardly say that the TP does not care about the issue of online gaming.

[TheEngineer]

Originally Posted by JohnWilkes

The home schoolers are natural allies of ours. We both want government out of our lives.

Grover Norquist tied the two together very well, under the Leave Us Alone umbrella: http://poker.blogtownhall.com/2010/0...ne_poker.thtml