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The Poker Legislation Forum, Brought to You by the PPA Discussions of various poker-related laws and steps players can take to push for better laws.

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Old 04-17-2011, 12:00 PM   #91
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Re: Best country for USA players to move

regarding Thailand it is easy enough to get a bank account here if you're renting a condo (yes I have a condo or 2 to rent out :-). Banks are major corporations, reliable, it is quite an advanced country in several respects. there are quite a few poker players here already of course
what I do for visas is get a tourist visa which gives you 90 days (60 + 30 extension). I get this in Hong Kong myself which I combine with a week or so in Macau which is next door. It is easy to get to from here (about 2.15 hours, $200),
you can actually get a much longer visa if needed by studying the thai language (class attendance optional), but I like the excuse to go over to Macau!
Online poker is open but "physical" gambling is illegal here at present
Internet here is very good, quality of life even better
Can PM me of course
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Old 04-17-2011, 12:17 PM   #92
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Re: Best country for USA players to move

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Originally Posted by kikadell View Post
3) US citizens must pay taxes wherever they are in the world
....once those US citizens have an income that exceeds $75K....possibly $80K.

Otherwise, US citizens do not have to pay taxes wherever they are in the world unless their host country has something to say about their own taxes.

During two decades in Japan, as a US citizen, I did not pay nor have to pay any US taxes. When I did the paperwork to get my wife's green card, HSec asked for income tax statements - I wrote a letter saying none existed because I did not have to file US taxes and it was okayed. Green card received.

Income tax for Japan came to somewhere between 4% and 5%.

There has been a mass exodus from Japan regarding gaijin, so there are a Lot of jobs ($2500 a month for 20 hour workweeks teaching English) that will help secure a visa. Needless to say, immigration in Japan is extremely lax right now and a visa with the easy paperwork can be had for about a $45 fee. I would suggest somewhere on Kyushu - keep it south. It takes about five weeks to actually get the visa and does require leaving the country once to go to any Japanese Embassy or Consulate in the world for the physical processing of the visa. Seoul is about 45 min away. HongKong/Macau is a much better selection, however, for poker players.

I doubt the Japanese government is going to do anything about online poker at this time, and for quite some time.

You can get money online easily. To get it off it is tricky because Japan is not good with this thing called a check. International postal money orders do the trick.
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Old 04-17-2011, 12:40 PM   #93
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Re: Best country for USA players to move

if u are self employed u still have to pay ss/medicare
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Old 04-17-2011, 12:41 PM   #94
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Re: Best country for USA players to move

($2500 a month for 20 hour workweeks teaching English)

just curious, do you need a college degree?
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Old 04-17-2011, 12:43 PM   #95
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Re: Best country for USA players to move

I think some of you are making things more difficult than they need to be.

If you decide to move away from the U.S. there are quite a few places you can go for periods up to 6 months purely as a tourist. Who knows what the situation will be like in 6 months so no need to burn any bridges just yet.

Depending on your ethnic origins you will have various options of where to go.

If you are predominately an English speaker then Canada, U.K., Australia / NZ spring to mind.

Canada is not unlike the U.S. (too much - just less guns), U.K. is fine and Australia is very similar to California (climate wise).

I am an Australian who has lived most of the past 10 years overseas so have some experience with these matters.

For most of 2009 - 2010 I was living in the south of England. I did not need to show PokerStars or Full Tilt anything like bank accounts etc, I just changed my address so that any items from the Stores could be sent to me.

Even though I do have an Australian Bank Account, I survived in England using my Neteller Account which is valid in most countries outside the U.S.

You can get a pre-paid Mastercard from them which you can use in any store as well as obtaining cash from ATM's (US$6 fee). You just withdraw to your Neteller Account and the money is available almost instantly.

If you are travelling all over the place (in my case Europe) this is ideal. There is no need to get cheques sent to your Bank Account using this method.

A word of warning if you are thinking of travelling to english speaking countries you will need to start spelling in english, not american (muhahaha)

That would be cheque NOT check, colour NOT color and humour NOT humor etc etc. I'm sure you get the picture

Personally I quite like the U.K. even though it's a bit too cold for my liking. I was in the south of the country which is the warmest part close to Southampton but it's still quite cold in winter. Luckily it's now almost summer.

I'm assuming Canada would be even colder than the U.S. but surely it would be an easy fit going to the 51st State for an American (apologies to any Canadians reading this - bad joke)

Of course Australia is similar to the U.K. and Canada in that gambling winnings are tax free but right now we are starting winter. Of course if you ended up in Queensland which tends to be tropical, that wouldn't be too much of an imposition.

I don't know if American's need a visa to go to the U.K. but it shouldn't be too hard to get a tourist visa. There are a number of good poker clubs in London if you feel the need to play live occasionally and there are plenty of good live tournaments throughout the U.K. to take your mind off grinding online.

My personal recommendation would be England. Plenty of poker available, lots of history to get you off your arse and out into the fresh air and it's close to Europe.

Warning: Americans will find London in particular quite expensive. You can buy a car quite cheaply but petrol (gas) is about £1.40+ litre (US$2.30) so unless my maths is wrong that makes it about 200% the US price if you call 1 (US) gallon = 3.7854 litres.

I'm not a big fan of exotic locations where the political situation could be volatile or where english is not widely spoken. Having said that I spent most of my time in Russia, go figure.

I hope this may have helped someone to make up their mind. I wouldn't rush into any decision until more is known. There has already been a couple of hassles in the past. #1 - Neteller shutdown and #2 - UIGEA stopping Americans from playing but both of these were short term issues and don't be surprised if this is also.

Good luck and hurry back ... we need more fish.
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Old 04-17-2011, 12:50 PM   #96
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Re: Best country for USA players to move

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foldemlow View Post
ok, so I guess this answers my first quetsion:

ENTRY / EXIT REQUIREMENTS: A visa is not required for U.S. citizens to visit Canada for up to 180 days. Anyone seeking to enter Canada for any purpose other than a visit (e.g. to work, study or immigrate) must qualify for the appropriate entry status, and should contact the Canadian Embassy or nearest consulate and consult the Canadian immigration website.

Now, how hard do you guys think it is to get a bank account with a sublet address and how big of a deal is it to be working there online without a work visa?

My assumption is that one would be fine spending a couple of months as a "tourist" in Canada and then coming back here and paying taxes to the US, but I might be wrong about that...
I'd like some more info on this as well, especially bold.
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Old 04-17-2011, 12:53 PM   #97
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Re: Best country for USA players to move

It is very easy if you are single. if u have a family it's a ****ing headache.
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Old 04-17-2011, 12:56 PM   #98
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Re: Best country for USA players to move

Quote:
Originally Posted by powder_8s View Post
You've clearly never been to Montreal. It makes Vegas look Christian with all the panties on the strippers and no brothels in the city limits.
That's a pretty good assessment of montreal

All those saying Canada is up to par with the big cities, what do you think France, England, etc will be like? Your not going to get a place in the downtown area for anywhere reasonably priced? If you want to live downtown in a big city expect to pay $$$ wether it be US/Can/Europe. I don't see how you could relocate from US To downtown mainstream europe without taking a pretty big hit in the pocket. Maybe that's just me and i've got ripped off on places I stayed but last time I rented an apartment in France the place I stayed was from the 1930-40s architecture and was on the market for 850k Euros I wouldn't even pay 200-250k for the place in US/CAD.

That being said not directly in downtown i'm sure it could be easily feasible to relocate and live well.

Last edited by boostfiend; 04-17-2011 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 04-17-2011, 12:58 PM   #99
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Re: Best country for USA players to move

Has anybody considered Punta del Este in Uruguay? Lovely weather, beaches, women, and soft cash games in a beautiful location? Just a thought...
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Old 04-17-2011, 01:00 PM   #100
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Re: Best country for USA players to move

What about Italy? I'm asking because I recently found out that I qualify for dual citizenship because my great-grandfather was an Italian citizen and he never renounced his citizenship there. I know the process takes a long time, but I am curious whether Italy is a good or bad option for online poker?
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Old 04-17-2011, 01:04 PM   #101
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Re: Best country for USA players to move

Puerto Rico?
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Old 04-17-2011, 01:09 PM   #102
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Re: Best country for USA players to move

Canada's immigration site: 1st link indicates US citizens require no visa for travel/vacation (although you'd need a passport).

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/visas.asp

Same site with information on length of stay (and information to apply for extension.)

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/extend-stay.asp

Quote contained in that link: "The BSO will determine the length of your stay (usually up to 6 months) and record a validity date indicating the duration of your visit."
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Old 04-17-2011, 01:56 PM   #103
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Re: Best country for USA players to move

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit View Post
I think some of you are making things more difficult than they need to be.

If you decide to move away from the U.S. there are quite a few places you can go for periods up to 6 months purely as a tourist. Who knows what the situation will be like in 6 months so no need to burn any bridges just yet.

Depending on your ethnic origins you will have various options of where to go.

If you are predominately an English speaker then Canada, U.K., Australia / NZ spring to mind.

Canada is not unlike the U.S. (too much - just less guns), U.K. is fine and Australia is very similar to California (climate wise).

I am an Australian who has lived most of the past 10 years overseas so have some experience with these matters.

For most of 2009 - 2010 I was living in the south of England. I did not need to show PokerStars or Full Tilt anything like bank accounts etc, I just changed my address so that any items from the Stores could be sent to me.

Even though I do have an Australian Bank Account, I survived in England using my Neteller Account which is valid in most countries outside the U.S.

You can get a pre-paid Mastercard from them which you can use in any store as well as obtaining cash from ATM's (US$6 fee). You just withdraw to your Neteller Account and the money is available almost instantly.

If you are travelling all over the place (in my case Europe) this is ideal. There is no need to get cheques sent to your Bank Account using this method.

A word of warning if you are thinking of travelling to english speaking countries you will need to start spelling in english, not american (muhahaha)

That would be cheque NOT check, colour NOT color and humour NOT humor etc etc. I'm sure you get the picture

Personally I quite like the U.K. even though it's a bit too cold for my liking. I was in the south of the country which is the warmest part close to Southampton but it's still quite cold in winter. Luckily it's now almost summer.

I'm assuming Canada would be even colder than the U.S. but surely it would be an easy fit going to the 51st State for an American (apologies to any Canadians reading this - bad joke)

Of course Australia is similar to the U.K. and Canada in that gambling winnings are tax free but right now we are starting winter. Of course if you ended up in Queensland which tends to be tropical, that wouldn't be too much of an imposition.

I don't know if American's need a visa to go to the U.K. but it shouldn't be too hard to get a tourist visa. There are a number of good poker clubs in London if you feel the need to play live occasionally and there are plenty of good live tournaments throughout the U.K. to take your mind off grinding online.

My personal recommendation would be England. Plenty of poker available, lots of history to get you off your arse and out into the fresh air and it's close to Europe.

Warning: Americans will find London in particular quite expensive. You can buy a car quite cheaply but petrol (gas) is about £1.40+ litre (US$2.30) so unless my maths is wrong that makes it about 200% the US price if you call 1 (US) gallon = 3.7854 litres.

I'm not a big fan of exotic locations where the political situation could be volatile or where english is not widely spoken. Having said that I spent most of my time in Russia, go figure.

I hope this may have helped someone to make up their mind. I wouldn't rush into any decision until more is known. There has already been a couple of hassles in the past. #1 - Neteller shutdown and #2 - UIGEA stopping Americans from playing but both of these were short term issues and don't be surprised if this is also.

Good luck and hurry back ... we need more fish.
I'm a little unsure about the bank account situation. A neteller account allows easy access to your funds? Then how come everybody hasn't been using that this whole time? Do they not work in the U.S.?
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Old 04-17-2011, 02:13 PM   #104
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Re: Best country for USA players to move

Neteller left the US 4-5 years ago. It also doesn't service Canada.
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Old 04-17-2011, 02:15 PM   #105
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Re: Best country for USA players to move

For anyone who plans to just "visit" Canada for 6 months, it is not as easy as it seems, especially if you are driving across the border.

I personally know TWO people on separate occasions (both average American, mid-twenties white guys) who were planning short (3-6 month) stays, both turned away at the border because the customs guys suspected they might be trying to move to Canada permanently.

Completely fictitious example:

Customs Agent: What brings you to Canada?
Poker player: Just visiting. I've always wanted to see the...uh...Canada...
CA (glances at the backseat, filled to the brim with suitcases, boxes, computer equipment): How long will you be here?
PP: A few months.
CA: Where are you staying?
PP: Um, I arranged to sublet an apartment.
CA: What do you do for a living?
PP: I'm self-employed.
CA: Doing what?
PP: It's an online business.
CA: So, you can work from anywhere?
PP: Sort of.
CA: Do you plan on working while in Canada?
PP: Um... (Do you lie to a customs official here?)
CA: What is your home address?
PP: Well, I'm planning to get a new place when I come back from my...vacation.
CA: You can make a u-turn over there. Have fun in America!

If you don't have a real job to return to, or are enrolled as a student, or have a permanent address, you WILL be considered a serious risk of becoming an illegal immigrant and they WILL deny you entry into Canada. Just be prepared to answer the questions and have serious proof that you plan on coming back.

If you're going by plane, I imagine it would be easier because you'd probably have a return ticket. But you will have to deal with customs either way. They don't HAVE to let you in at all if your motives seem suspicious.

Good luck.
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