I don’t know if this has been brought up already or not, so I’ll just post it. If and when Online poker is legalized here in the USA, our next problem that we will be facing is the bad rake. I kind of already knew this and vaguely remember some discussion on it, but I’m witnessing how bad it is on the play money sites.

I started out just testing it a month or so ago, but have been playing Golden Nuggets software now than just testing. It’s actually pretty decent software. They make it realistic and pull a rake from tournies/SNG’s and the cash games and it’s a steep rake. It’s like roughly 10% rake on some games. I’ve been able to beat the game and turned the starting $50 into over $1000. I know this is only play money, but my point is the rake. It sucks and if and when Golden Nugget is operational with real money, I think they’ll continue with the same rake. Even though it’s beatable, I think I’m going to have a hard time playing with that rake. And, I’m not sure if this is beatable long term since I just been playing a month or so on it.

Here’s an example:

I just finished playing a heads up Cash game that went about 30 hands or 7 or 8 minutes. We both started out with $50 and the blinds were $.25/.50. Both players combined stated out with $100, but after I took all his monies when we both got it all in on the flop, I took $90.55. Imagine if the play kept going back and forth 30, 45, 60 minutes! That’s way too much money the house is taking and I don’t think I can play that.

Here’s another one : I played a $50 double or nothing SNG where 10 people enter and 5 people leave with $93. One single game, $35 rake—that one is 7% rake for one game!

If this were real money, I think there are only a few games that would be worth playing like 10 handed cash game and play tight.

The problem is this pending legislation that will cut out international sites, a small player pool, and lack of competition among other poker sites to bring down rake. Hopefully it will require only a few poker sites to force down rake, but if they collaborate to keep the rake where it is then we lose.

I think this should be PPA’s next goal after legalization. Or, we all move to Canada to play.

Can I get your thoughts and comments, please?

by my calculations, i'm gonna have a BILLION chickens once this ****'s all done and over with.

What do mean by chickens? Easy money?

I think as players we new to demand that the rake needs to be relative to money won. At stars this ratio is about 50% at 50nl. This is my own analysis I did on a few m hands. Other sources say its even worse.

I think this is the reason the economy is declining.

I think something reasonable should be 10-20% depending on the stakes.

That in my opinion wod solve the problem we have right now.

I think sa is talking about counting chickens before they hatch,I could be wrong though.

Look, we owe trillions of dollars into the national debt. If we can opt to rake poker at around 20-30% rake, because after all this is just a recreational game and is gambling then we would have enough money to put back into schools and other national activities that we currently can't afford. I would even think 40% would be reasonable rake because lottery takes near 50% from what I remember.

Level?

I think he/she left off the [POLITICIAN SPEAK] [/POLITICIAN SPEAK] [SARCASM][/SARCASM] tags.

10% no cap is pretty impossible to beat.

even 5% no cap is probably impossible against games with any reasonable proportion of half decent opponents.

10% max $3 would make it very hard to beat the micros but wouldnt have too much of an impact at high stakes...probably significantly hurt midstakes too tho, even if they were still beatable.

the 5% $3max that virtually all online sites have used seems to be the sweet spot...i would HOPE that with regulation and competition some sites would drive it lower by competition, but that isnt really how america works these days so i wouldnt count on it.

Relax, 10% is the maximum set by Nevada regulations. I am pretty sure that they had to use SOME figure to test it out, so they took that.

I say, relax, because the Maximum drop for slots in Nevada is like 15%, but most video poker machines hold around 1%, because operators understand that they face a competitive market and are offering an entertainment product.

OTOH, the rake in B&M games here at $1-2 IS 10%, capped generally at $3 or $4 ...... you might need to see some competiton to get a reasonable rake level set by the market.

Considering if this bill passes most of us here might not be able to play online poker at all, it seems like the next step after legislation will be to actually try to get players access to the games.

I dont think you need to worry about the rake if you cant even play.

How could you ever know what SA is talking about?

Do you know how much it costs to feed a BILLION chickens?

We will know once it is approved. What was the rake on Full Tilt and Pokerstars before black friday?

This is a problem that can be solved through market forces.

This.

As DQ said, the max it 10% but it is unlikely the actual rake will be that high. I-gaming is expected to be an extremely competitive market and the rake will adjust to reflect that.

It has been brought up many times in many places. Here are the first 7 that search turned up. There are hundreds of others.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...n-high-904511/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/69...l-tldr-981961/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/36...-high-1036449/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/21...stars-1114478/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...inrate-326287/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...usness-941095/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...100-a-1009541/

And here's a picture you can use to make your point more visually.

FWIW, if you want a good domain name to pursue your cause, I would be willing to license out the following name to you:

TheRakeIsTooDamnHigh.com

This. I thought the thread might be about the 15 month lockout of no fed poker in US, while at the same time it becoming illegal to play offshore. We'll be cut off from online poker even more than on BF, for almost as long as we've already been waiting since BF.

Sites might stick around but will get even tighter and riskier. Scary, I guess it could have been much worse than 3 years total, but damn.

The blackout period is a necessary evil.

This would not concern me if at the end of the blackout the vast majority of us could play poker.

The idea that supporting this bill means supporting the very real possibility that at the end of the blackout all we have done in reality is helped some people realize their dream of completely eradicating internet gambling along with internet poker for 90%+ or a very large percentage of the country is what scares me.

Not that it will matter much, but I will not support any bill that has a chance to end like that no matter what the Kool-Aid drinkers say.

That's not a dream, it's a delusion.

I like your finish, but disagree that ANY blackout period is necessary or justifiable.

WHY black-out any US markets from ANY play, let States legalize online poker with NO blackout ?

It is sickening that folks buy that a blackout is a "necessity", just because they've been told that by some paid mouthpiece regarding Capitol Hill politics.

Why not practice BETTER game selection ? Go find a better, softer route to lobby for legalization.

Go find a game where the RAKE is not a 15 month blackout.

A "blackout" is "necessity" how/where ? It was not a necessity in Nevada, where poker has been legalized at the State level. Hey, if it actually IS a necessity, at this point on the Hill, forego that route .... go to States and get working on bringing poker to markets which want it.

i'd do 15 months in prison for federally regulated online poker

How many months has it been since Nevada legalized poker at the State level?

Are cards in the air yet?

When will they be?

Ray,

I before never realized this was your gimmick account.

Preet

Ain't no blackout involved in Nevada. Just first time up the learning curve for operators, actually approvals have been pretty quick.

Why not allow those operators to open up ASAP, why impose a blackout on them or anyone else ?