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Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That.

03-31-2012 , 12:52 PM
This is a reponse to an article I read online and where the state of Utah wants to Opt Out of any Futre Online Poker Legislation and how we should approach reclaiming our rights and repealing this Internet Prohibition.

Not Surprising but Still Alarming
We learned 2 things last week, one was that of the choice of online games to play women prefer playing poker and in fact they may prefer online poker at first over live poker at least until they build their confidence up in the game. The second thing we learned is that the state of Utah wants to Opt Out of any Federal Poker Legislation provided that any legislation that passes will be giving the states the option to Opt Out.
This neat little provision is something Arizona Senator Jon Kyl will insist is in any final Federal Poker Bill. There is a serious problem with the Opt Out clauses one it has echoes of States Rights which is basically a code word for the Old Segregationist South. Second given some states past histories to we really want to give states the option of Opting Out. Even though Utah had no past history of racial discrimination it has had a history of discriminating against women and gays.
If we start giving the states the option of Opting Out are we then going to giving states the option of Opting Out of A woman’s right to choose if Roe V Wade is overturned and we have to enact Reproductive Rights Act and are we going to let states like Utah opt out Contraception as well. Are we going to let states like Utah Opt Out of The Civil Rights Act of 1964, The Voting Rights Act of 1965? Sure Utah has had a history of being anti gambling and Mississippi, Alabama, and South Carolina have had a history of being fiercely segregationist but we didn't let them Opt Out of Federal Civil Rights legislation if we did what would the purpose of having such legislation in the first place.
Here what’s wrong with this picture sure Utah is a state that is dominated by the Mormon Church but it is also a part of the United States of America and we are one country not 50 little Banana Republics of Feudal Kingdoms, also do you think California can Opt out of the Federal Prohibition of Marijuana? No. Can Wyoming of Vermont Opt Out of Federal legislation that set the drinking age 21 lowering it back down to 18? No.
Point yes Utah is a place where they don’t want you to, drink , use Contraception of gamble but they also have a highly esteemed brewery known as Uinta Brewing which is known for its Oaked Jacked Imperial Pumpkin Ale which its alcohol content comes in Around 10% abv. Certainly if you can produce high gravity ales in Utah you can have online poker.
Also we are talking about repealing a prohibition that has been imposed on the American People not expanding a freedom of a right( OH THANK YOU US GOVERNMENT FOR GIVING ME THE RIGHT TO PLAY POKER) that millions of Americans enjoyed up until recently when the government started prosecuting the online poker rooms and the poker pros who were affiliated with; so this is a hard fought battle to restore what was lost and build upon by
1) Repealing the Unlawful Internet Gaming Enforcement Act of 1986
2.) Passage of a Fair Gaming and Licensing Act and the Consumer PC Protection and Security Act which would
a.) Legalize and License internet poker rooms b.) Make sure all Gaming Software would be free of viruses, spyware, and malware and be registered with Norton or McAfee as a computer safe c.) Allow for minimal and nonburdenous taxation as a way to raise revenues and finally and most important
d.) Contain no Blackout Period of Opt Out Clause for the States, and allow for all citizens of the United States where ever they are to play against whoever they want without Federal, State, or Local Government interference.
And finally we are talking about the internet which I know the state of Utah has wanted to regulate and perhaps outlaw since its inception, the internet that one thing that puts the world at our fingertips and that one thing that brings us all together and brings down tyrannical regimes. So you want to Censure the Internet, HELL NO THERE IS NO WAY WE ARE GOING TO LET YOU DO THAT, STATES RIGHTS MY ASS we are one nation, one people, one constitution were all Americans have the same set of rights regardless of what state or coummunity they live in.
fighting one small battle in the Governments War on the American People

Last edited by lowgearman; 03-31-2012 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Spelling and Grammar
Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Quote
03-31-2012 , 02:35 PM
Very possible to do all those things in a 100-200 year time frame.
Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Quote
04-01-2012 , 04:25 AM
I see OP decided to start the April Fool's tomfoolery a day early.
Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Quote
04-01-2012 , 05:45 PM
If you see this post as Apirl Fools tomfoolery then you either havent read the full posting or you dont take your constitutional rights very seriously which is very sad.

Let me ask you one question what happens if they pass SOPA(the Stop Online Piracy Act) which has been shelved for now in the same manner they passed the UIGEA and this forum is taken down because someone saw something they didnt like which would happen if SOPA ever gets passed

Last edited by lowgearman; 04-01-2012 at 05:54 PM.
Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Quote
04-01-2012 , 07:40 PM
I'm just wondering how you think we repeal the UIGEA.
Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Quote
04-01-2012 , 08:23 PM
Lost me right at the start. No legislation will ever pass Congress without some way for states to opt out.
Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Quote
04-01-2012 , 08:35 PM
Quote:
HELL NO THERE IS NO WAY WE ARE GOING TO LET YOU DO THAT, STATES RIGHTS MY ASS
O'rly
Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Quote
04-01-2012 , 11:40 PM
OP, are you saying you want the feds to take power away from the states and dictate new gambling rules for all?

If so, how is that constitutional? And what other new fed power grabs are you promoting today? Should we just do away with states altogether?
Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Quote
04-02-2012 , 09:05 PM
Okay I dont know where to start, but there seems to be(or is it me) alot of sympathy here for the powers of the state over that of individual American citizens.
First, regarding Repealing the UIGEA, it has to be repealed in order to have regulated and licensed online gaming. No Repeal No Online Poker, No Pokerstars, no Party Poker, No 888Poker None, Nein, Zero, Zilch. Its an unpopular law and we live in a democracy and we the poker playing public must make it our priority to repeal it. If we could repeal prohibition we can repeal the UIEGA.
Second, no law will pass Congress unless we let states Opt Out We repealed prohibition and we didnt let states Opt Out of that, And how about the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965, southern states definitely could not Opt Out of those laws. And the Federal Legal drinking age is 21 whether states like or not.
And finally this is not about giving the Federal government more power its about reclaiming our rights as citizens, I want both Federal and State governments to less inluence over our rights not more. And before you get teary eyed over the rights of the states, right now many state legislature are hard at work trying to take away your rights when they should be more worried about schools, roads, and bridges instead of banning online poker, abortion, contraception, pornography, or restricting your right to vote.
Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Quote
04-02-2012 , 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowgearman
Okay I dont know where to start, but there seems to be(or is it me) alot of sympathy here for the powers of the state over that of individual American citizens.
First, regarding Repealing the UIGEA, it has to be repealed in order to have regulated and licensed online gaming. No Repeal No Online Poker, No Pokerstars, no Party Poker, No 888Poker None, Nein, Zero, Zilch. Its an unpopular law and we live in a democracy and we the poker playing public must make it our priority to repeal it. If we could repeal prohibition we can repeal the UIEGA.
Second, no law will pass Congress unless we let states Opt Out We repealed prohibition and we didnt let states Opt Out of that, And how about the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965, southern states definitely could not Opt Out of those laws. And the Federal Legal drinking age is 21 whether states like or not.
And finally this is not about giving the Federal government more power its about reclaiming our rights as citizens, I want both Federal and State governments to less inluence over our rights not more. And before you get teary eyed over the rights of the states, right now many state legislature are hard at work trying to take away your rights when they should be more worried about schools, roads, and bridges instead of banning online poker, abortion, contraception, pornography, or restricting your right to vote.
UIGEA: Your view is a complete fail. Federal legislation would strengthen the UIGEA, not repeal it. It would opt out poker, but only for those companies that apply for and receive licenses from the appropriate agencies. Such companies would have to be US entities. They could form partnerships where some of the existing sites might provide the software/expertise/we, but those sites would also have to be licensed. Party and 888 have already entered into such agreements. PokerStars need not apply. They operated in the US when they weren't supposed to - they are banished.

We can't repeal the UIGEA. It is politically unfeasible. And we don't need to.

Opting Out: Another complete fail. It is absurd beyond belief to compare the regulation of i-poker with the Civil Rights Act or the Voting Rights Act. The latter two were needed to right state laws and policies that were totally out of whack with the Constitution of the United States of America. There is nothing in the Constitution about having the right to play poker. It doesn't exist. PERIOD.

What forms of gambling are permitted, if any, as well as the regulatory oversight of them is a matter that each state decides. It is fundamentally an issue of morals, and those are up to the individual states. This is the way it has been for 235+ years. This is the way it will remain.

No state opt out ⇒ no federal legislation.
Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Quote
04-02-2012 , 11:15 PM
Want to hear more about how we didnt let states opt out of prohibition repeal.
Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Quote
04-03-2012 , 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowgearman
Okay I dont know where to start,
I'd suggest some research would help.
Quote:
but there seems to be(or is it me) alot of sympathy here for the powers of the state over that of individual American citizens.
This might be a good place to start your research...look into state police power.

Quote:
First, regarding Repealing the UIGEA, it has to be repealed in order to have regulated and licensed online gaming. No Repeal No Online Poker, No Pokerstars, no Party Poker, No 888Poker None, Nein, Zero, Zilch.
UIGEA applies to unlawful online poker business. That's fine because we are seeking sites made lawful by the states. There will be more than "Zero" state lawful sites, soon.
Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Quote
04-03-2012 , 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowgearman
we are one nation, one people, one constitution were all Americans have the same set of rights regardless of what state or coummunity they live in.
fighting one small battle in the Governments War on the American People
It's that very Constitution that defines the rights of the states. If you don't agree, simply work to amend the Constitution to shift more authority to the Congress. The Constitution defines such a process.
Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Quote
04-03-2012 , 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowgearman
Okay I dont know where to start, but there seems to be(or is it me) alot of sympathy here for the powers of the state over that of individual American citizens.
We've gotten over the fact that some things "are not fair." Unfortunately, there is no court of fairness to overturn laws some find unfair. Rather, we have a defined process through which to work.

Quote:
First, regarding Repealing the UIGEA, it has to be repealed in order to have regulated and licensed online gaming. No Repeal No Online Poker, No Pokerstars, no Party Poker, No 888Poker None, Nein, Zero, Zilch.
No repeal is needed for online poker. UIGEA is an enforcement measure that applies to some online gaming that is unlawful under other laws.

Quote:
Its an unpopular law and we live in a democracy and we the poker playing public must make it our priority to repeal it.
UIGEA passed the House as a freestanding bill by a wide margin. It (or at least the anti-gaming sentiments behind it) is becoming less popular because many poker players have been speaking out, which we need to keep up. Still, while I see a good shot at a system where licensed online poker is permitted, I see no real shot for an outright repeal of UIGEA.

Quote:
If we could repeal prohibition we can repeal the UIEGA.
Second, no law will pass Congress unless we let states Opt Out We repealed prohibition and we didnt let states Opt Out of that
Some states opted out of the repeal of Prohibition. Mississippi was dry until 1966.

Quote:
And the Federal Legal drinking age is 21 whether states like or not.
Not so. States can choose their own drinking age, but will lose some of their share of federal highway funds if they choose an age below 21.

Quote:
And finally this is not about giving the Federal government more power its about reclaiming our rights as citizens, I want both Federal and State governments to less inluence over our rights not more. And before you get teary eyed over the rights of the states, right now many state legislature are hard at work trying to take away your rights when they should be more worried about schools, roads, and bridges instead of banning online poker, abortion, contraception, pornography, or restricting your right to vote.
People here are simply posting about reality. Again, posting about why you feel the current system is unfair doesn't move the ball. Instead, let's think about how the actions we choose will bring about the change we desire.
Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Quote
04-10-2012 , 09:26 PM
Actually I think we all learned at a very early age that life isn't fair but our contstitution was an attempt of building a nation that would attempt to be more fairer and less capricous than mother other nations.
And yes there is no court of fairness but we do have a Supreme Court who at times have decided what is and is not constitutional may I remind you of
Griswald v Connecticut and Roe v Wade and yes that court even ruled VCRs did not constitute copyright infringement and even the IMEGA tried for a judical solution in the 3rd Circut Court fearing that congress would not reverse itself. A legislatuve solution is always perferable to a judical solution but one cannot ignore the fact that judical solutions have been and are still be used to this day perhaps to a much lesser extent.
As for the UIGEA it bascially refers to poker since it expempts state lotteries, fantasy poker and horse racing and most online gaming is poker. When was the last time some played on RouletteStars.com and according to Pokenews it was stuck on to the Safe Port Act under the cover of darkness.
And yes some states and even counties remained dry after prohibition but the 21 ammendment made no mention of allow individual states to opt out it remained silent on the issue.
Also telling states they can choose there own drinking age but they will lose highway funding is not a choice it is coercion what state is going to be willing to give there highway funding.
Finally when it comes to bring able the change we desire how about dealing from a postion of strength and stop begging the congress. Never Fold try reraising once in while and maybe you might get the congress to fold on the issue of poker prohibition(they want to get reelected except for Scott Walker that is).
Poker Players should for once practice what they preach; to quote Phil Gordon Success Rewards Aggression and if Phil Gordon said it must be true.
Finally remember this issue is bigger than poker itself since Black Friday we since a cornacopia of nefarous legislation in our state legislatures and some of them involved the issue of poker. We will have to work with other groups like women rights groups and other groups to prevent futher damage to both our freedoms and to the game of poker itself.
Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Quote
04-10-2012 , 09:40 PM
Take your prescribed medicine kids.
Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Quote
04-10-2012 , 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowgearman
... Poker Players should for once practice what they preach; to quote Phil Gordon Success Rewards Aggression and if Phil Gordon said it must be true. ...
I'm almost convinced this is a ScreaminAsian gimmick account.
Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Quote
04-11-2012 , 05:53 AM
OP has no clue how our laws work. the constitution can be ratified which would overrule individual states. for example, a state cannot start denying women the right to vote or whatever OP said.
Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Quote
04-14-2012 , 11:04 AM
As a poker player from Utah, I appreciate OP's all-for-one sentiment. It's lonely being a poker player in this state.
Opting Out of Online Poker, and other Issues On the State Level and the Problems with That. Quote

      
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