I attack the system which is not effective in solving problems, PERIOD !

And you Sir are part of the system and thus part of the problem. And my comments are not directed at anyone personally but the supposed "rights" you fight for is a joke to begin with !

You call it a compromise and I call it settling. I have two Grandfathers that served and fought in WWII to save us from the very thing we are becoming today, irony is a puzzling mystery indeed

Sure let him delete posts, and if you open your eyes you will realize this kind of thing is why we do not have online poker !

Our country continuously moves toward Communist/socialist control not only in the media but in all areas of our society. So sure delete posts that offer thinkin and ideas etc if they oppose your idealism.

The real answer is that we do not need any regulation at all at the Federal or Local level other than the normal Governing bodies of Taxation already set Laws that all businesses follow.

Let the sites be to do business on an open and free market the way this country was intended to be. Tax the sites a set fee and hold US citizens accountable to pay taxes on profits at years end. In terms of ethics, Parents are responsible to not allow their children to gamble online before age 18 and once 18 years old I should be able to freely do with my own money what I want as long as it does not directly hurt my neighbor.

There, problem solved. Oh wait that is just too easy and would put a whole lot of these Lobbyist and Politicians and self serving interest groups out of business.

I speak the truth and what is and should be right for the masses and the people. The PPA speaks in terms of compromise. There is not and should not be any compromise ! We are a Govt "For the people and by the people" and until we stand up for what is right we will have to keep sitting and watching as these Elitist groups keep telling us what they think is right because they want to own and control it.

You're not the first one to come here, upset that government actually passes laws and has the ability to enforce them. You can pretend government has no authority in this matter, but it won't make it so. We've seen that.

Rich, again my disgust and apparently meaningless rants are not directed toward you personally but at the system which I know and believe is evil at its very core and in no way even comes close to doing what those great men who wrote the constitution intended it to do.

"We have given you a Republic, if you can keep it." Benjamin Franklin

My contention is that they should not be passing more laws, more restrictions, more control, needing and gaining more authority, more regulations etc....

STAY the @!%$ out of it ! Allow online poker to follow the same rules and regulations that any other industry follows. Let open and free markets rule allowing competition to flourish and be at the core of bringing the best possible product to the people.

The Kyle/Reid bill is such a joke that it looks like it was written right from a guideline from the Communist Manifesto !

You are the one that can pretend that you want something good while actually being part of the plan leading us directly into a twisted version of a Stalin/Hitler/Lenin/Obama world. Congrats

Quote:

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
George Orwell

Quote:

"We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men."
George Orwell

I have gotten into a few words with Rich Muny of the PPA and my criticism of their organization and the current situation US online poker players now face.

There are two kinds of thinkers in this world. One type is a positive mindset that there is an abundance and plenty for all as long as we live by certain set of conservative minded principles guided by right and wrong. The other is mindset that humans are fools and there is not enough and that the really intelligent elite people need to think for everyone else and make decisions that are in "everyones" best interest.

Abundance Mentality
-Victory means success that brings mutually beneficial results to all involved.
-Recognizes unlimited opportunities for positive growth and development.
-Realizes that there are three ways to do things, my way, your way and a better way.
-Appreciates the uniqueness of others.

Scarcity Mentality
-Victory means success at the expense of someone else.
-Difficulty showing happiness for the success of others including family, friends and business associates.
-Difficulty sharing credit, recognition, power and profit.
-Difficulty being a team player because differences in opinion are perceived as disloyalty.

At one time businessmen were in fear if a competitor would set up shop near them for a belief that the market could not sustain them both. But time told the truth that competition and more available choices actually created a larger more flourishing market. More businesses and more competition was better for everyone. Owners even started community organizations to help each other and thus the greatest market in human history unfolded, The United states of America.

We were founded and flourished by Abundance Mentality thinkers. Now most of our politicians and leaders are the opposite. They are Scarcity Mentality thinkers who feel the need to control, govern and ration everything because they tell us that they know what is best for everyone when that is not entirely the truth. They dont want what is best for everyone, they want control which is essentially wanting what is best for themselves.

Our Govt and the PPA will tell you that we need Federal Poker Legislation for our own good when in fact their hypocrisy knows no bounds.

As far as a solution, I agree that this is and should be a states issue. We need to form groups within our own states to lobby for what is truly right, Free open markets that are merely held to the same standards every other business is held to in terms of taxation and criminal liability.

I am from Ohio born and raised, if you have any ideas you would like to share PM me. I am seriously thinking of joining this fight at more than a level of making threads and sending emails.

Let us fight for what made this country great, which is taking the fight directly to our leaders in our local communities at the state level. Let's keep the Federal out out of this. The Kyle/Reid bill should be enough to scare any red blooded American to death who values any type of Republic and/or liberties our forefathers gave us for those of us who bothered to read it closely.

It looked like something straight out of the Communist Manifesto and the PPA endorsed it ? I am so glad it will be done away with ! And we were supposed to accept this just so we could play again compromising everything Americans stand for.

If the PPA will take the fight to the States individually and agree NOT to settle for unfair and overbearing legislation I will again endorse them but until then I am and have been through with them. They are part of the problem and not the solution in my opinion.

Bye.

Based on the second sentence of yours I bolded, I'd say you're guilty of the being in the camp of the people you talk about in the first sentence I bolded.

If you're through with them, and have been through with them, why are you posting this?

I am curious why this is moved into the PPA forum when my thread is directly related to my views on how and why we should fight for legislation ?

Even though PPA is in the title the basis of my contention is to fight at the state level for legislation apart from the views of the PPA for anyone who actually read it.

Start a blog.

I can see the trolls beginning and I truly see why America is in this position.

I posted it because I completely disagree with almost everything that they stand for. Just the fact that they are willing to compromise so much just to get some twisted form of legislation in is wrong in my opinion.

Your title and main gist of the thread is about how PPA is wrong, just as were your posts leading up to this thread (now moved here). The evidence is your opening and concluding paragraphs, usually a pretty good indicator of what is the intent of the post.

Samurai,

The problem with that is government is actively working to stop online poker. It's not our fault the system is what it is, and not many of our members are asking us to do nothing but plug our ears and scream "but it's not fairrrrrrr" and get nowhere.

I did not say that, I simply said I disagree with them. I would like people to open their minds to what has happened and fight for what is right and not just accept things as they are.

Free open markets is the answer, not closed twisted communist BS like the Kyle/Reid bill. Not suggesting we have no legislation, just legislation that promotes free enterprise.

You know, the kind that actually built this nation... novel idea I know, just amazing how twisted and desensitized Americans are today to believe the rhetoric that is being distributed by our Govt and the PPA that most poker players on this forum dont even care they just want to click buttons at any cost..

Why do you think think this is PPA's doing? It's the government seeking to ban us, not us.

Maybe it is Rich. And perhaps my fault more than yours. I truly believe I am right yet I do nothing but blame others for not caring or doing anything. The men like my Grandfathers and others who built this nation did not sit home hoping others would solve their problems. When something came up, they packed their bags and they went to die for what they believed in. Until more of us are willing to at least consider it the powers that be will continue to gain power and influence and eventual complete control.

Battle Hymn of the Republic

I realize that I have a lot of personal soul searching to do in order to discover what is really important to me in terms of this fight and how far and much I am willing to fight. Guess I just wanted to see if others thought as I do.

Funny how you ignore the more important part of my post. You rail against people who think they're smart enough to make decisions for others, but you want to make the decision of how the PPA should act. In other words, you're doing exactly what you're railing against.

Personally, I think you're not dealing with the reality of the situation of what happened to poker and the reality of what we have to do to get online poker back.

Uhhh, as much as I like playing a little poker online, Im not really ready to die for it. Sorry.

I had Gary Johnson on my webcast twice and had his running mate, Judge Gray, on the show on Election Eve. I am supportive, but am not willing to sit back and allow my rights to be taken. We've lost our liberties incrementally and will have to get them back the same way, I think.

SamuraiPlaya;

Exactly what is it that you want poker players to do?
Please state specific steps/actions that you want to see taken.

I stated it in the OP. We need to organize ourselves in groups at the State level and start at the Grass roots level. Go door to door if we have to.

States need to open their own State to not only allowing in-state land based sites to open but they also need to allow outside sites IE Stars/FTP, Euro Sites etc and anyone who will apply and agree to follow set rules which would include paying a set fee each year to each particular State that approves their business to open.

It would essentially be a regulated but open/free market. Sites would be transparent in terms of players winnings & losses so that players will have to pay State and Federal income tax on winnings. sites will have to follow strict player ID verification so as to limit the risk of underage players playing before age 18.

I have so many more ideas on how to organize and implement a regulated online poker market that is caters to free enterprise and still gets a fair but not burdensome tax to the players or the sites.

The problem is a solvable equation that is not too difficult but we must remove the variables of greed, selfishness, and self righteous thinking from the equation in order to solve it. And that cant be done with out people who believe so strongly in their cause they are willing to go to extreme lengths to inspire others and "sell it"... As someone else posted in another thread to paraphrase/quote Alec Baldwin in the movie Glengarry Glen Ross:

"There is only one thing that counts in this life, get them to sign on the line that is dotted"

Once again I have not fully decided to commit to this fight but I have many ideas on a strategy and a picture of what this fair and open yet regulated market would look like.

Im not sure how thats different from what the PPA is trying to push to be honest

advocating the Kyle/Reid bill or anything like it is not what I talked about above, it's the opposite.

The PPA didnt write Reid/Kyl and, with Reid/Kyl dead, has moved onto the state level. Im just not sure which of those principles you think the PPA is opposed to. If your simply objecting to fighting on the Federal level, that's cool, but its also behind us right now.

As for the PPA, it is a tool, nothing more .... and that is not a perjorative term.

Express legality has a price, the PPA is players' tool for taking part in setting only the opening price. The market will dictate the longterm equilibrium.

Personally, I have experience with respect to providing an online poker service to players, in a free market and in regulated markets. I think the market will adapt to whatever rgulations come down the pike as the price for express legality. Eventually, the market will exercise its weight.

So long as the PPA advocates for "player-friendly" regulation, and stops dancing to someone else's tune on protectionist mechanisms*, it can serve poker players' interests, ...... which it now understands requires a State, rather than Federal focus.

* Protectionism is not just pushed by casinos. Demands to kowtow to a certain class/tye of operator or even type of player may itself lower the "Gross Poker Value" or GPV of a proposed regulatory structure. A "player-friendly" environment, maximizing GPV (poker play/enjoyment) for most players, actually may drive off or depress the win-rate for multi-table, HUD-loving grinders. Even if it yields the "most poker play" for the price willingly paid/revenue generated. Why not trust the market you seem to value so highly to reach that "player-friendly" structure ?

That is exactly what I want. An open free market with limited regulation. Govt's should not be involved at all with thins like rake, p2p transfers, who can own a site or not etc etc..

as long as a site applies and qualifies and pays their fees yearly and has a transparency in terms of taxes and follows certain standards such as ID verification etc then yes the market will dictate the rest.

It is not a new concept, but it is one that is proven to work. What I opposed is the Kyle/Reid bill and or anything like it which is what the PPA has pushed for citing basically it is "better than nothing" which I completely disagree..