There must be something in the works with the compact, because there is already talk of breaking ground of the new hotel early next year and moving the poker room to the old bus depot.

Those are old rumors but I just heard new talk of it today.

It was always the most likely scenario that the compact would be renegotiated.

As regards the player-banked games legal issue, whether or not the games are "poker" is not the issue. The current FL law defines "authorized games" as all nonbanked poker games. There is no definition of "nonbanked" in the law, but there is a definition of "banking game", which defines them as house-banked games.

However, the term "banking game" is not equivalent to the term "nonbanked" and is only used later in the statutes in a provision that says banking games are prohibited:

So the legal question is what games are "specifically authorized". That lies in the definition of "authorized games":

And we get back to the fact that "nonbanking" is not defined, which means that it falls to the common usage definition of the word. In this case imo, therefore, it would mean that any banked game, whether house-banked or player-banked, is not an authorized game under state law.

IMO, the state regulators made a definite legal error authorizing player-banked games in the first place, and the Seminoles have a perfectly valid legal claim against the state for compact violations.

Under the terms of the compact, in the case of such compact violations, the tribe is required to put their compact payments into an escrow account for up to a year while the state has the opportunity to correct the violations, after which the payments to the state resume if the violations are corrected. If the state doesn't correct the violations, then the tribe gets to keep the money and continue all the gaming without making any further payments to the state.

It doesn't really matter whether or not a new compact is negotiated. To continue to receive gaming revenue-sharing payments from the tribe, even if a new compact is not renegotiated and the authorized tribal gaming gets reduced to just slot machines, the state has to correct their error and stop the player-banked poker games at the pari-mutuels.

So this change in policy by the state regulators to forbid player-banked poker games is not really a sure sign that the compact renegotiations are progressing. It's just a sure sign that the state realizes it's legal mistake and doesn't want to forgo the $250M+ dollars per year it gets from the tribe. Of course, it could also tie in to the compact renegotiations, but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that they must be closing in on a final agreement.

Still, I doubt either the state or the tribe wants the current compact to fail. If the tribe were to prevail in court and get continued Class III gaming without payments to the state, then there is also no longer any incentive for the state to continue exclusivity to the tribe. The state would then have to expand gaming throughout the state to maintain the gaming revenues, and the tribe would lose their dominance in the Florida gaming market. I don't think either party wants that scenario.

Gov Scott and Seminoles reach a deal. Now goes to state legislature.

http://www.tbo.com/news/florida/flor...deal-20151207/

You beat me to it. lol

"For its part, the tribe gets to keep card games such as blackjack at their casinos across the state, including the Seminole Hard Rock casinos in Tampa and Hollywood, and to add table games such as roulette and craps."

So when will this go to vote and or be official and active?

At this point they will probably just wait and bring it to a vote in the regular spring session of the legislature, which starts in January.

This article has better details (most significantly that the deal is for 20 years, not just the seven mentioned in the TBO article):
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/poli...e48541885.html

And here is their link to a pdf of the actual compact:
http://www.miamiherald.com/latest-ne...ng_Compact.pdf

Some significant provisions in the new compact in regards to poker:

Expanded hours at the pari-mutuels allowed.

De-coupling allowed.

Player-banked games (termed 'Designated Player Games' in the compact) allowed, with some restrictions.
"Banking or Banked-Card Games" now defined more clearly as house-banked games.

Designated Player Games is defined as:
"games consisting of at least three cards in which players compare their cards only to those cards of the player in the dealer position, who also plays winners and collects from losers." It also must use standard poker hand-ranking, and the max wager is $25.

If Internet gaming involving wagering (e.g. poker) is authorized in the state, then the Guaranteed Minimum Payments cease (which exist for just the first 7 years of the new compact) but the Revenue Sharing payments continue. However, this doesn't apply if the tribe offers Internet gaming. This means that there is almost no chance for Internet poker to be authorized in Florida until at least 2024 unless the tribe implements it as well. (And the same for DFS.) The compact also affirmatively states that Internet gaming is not currently authorized by Florida law.

Here are all the required restrictions for Designated Player Games under the new compact:

The max wagers is $25.
The Designated Player occupies a player position.
Each player is offered, in a clockwise rotation, the opportunity to be the next Designated Player after each hand.
The Designated Player must play a regular player position for at least two hands after being the Designated Player for 30 consecutive hands.
Designated Players are not required to pay more than 10x the minimum posted bet.
Parimutuels that offer Slot Machines or Video Race Terminals are not allowed to offer Designated Player Games.
Designated Player Game tables must be no more than 25% of the authorized poker tables at the parimutuel.

Designated Player games are ******ed. What is a "standard poker hand ranking" and if they are going to allow it why have a $25 max wager?

It appears whoever got that part included is still under the impression DP games are somehow related to poker games which is hilarious and really sad/annoying as a poker player. What do we have to do to get the PPA to write something distinguishing the two. Its not good for poker that these people keep trying to call DP games "poker" games.

The standard hand rankings are defined in the compact as those that are defined in Hoyles Modern Encyclopedia of Card Games, 1974 edition.

Why do you think the DP games are bad for poker, especially as they are defined under this compact? Do you think they are taking players and money away from the Holdem games? Is that bad for poker, or simply bad for Holdem sharks? The DP players are poker players too - if that is their poker game of choice, why should they be shunned by the poker community?

I wonder if the way those restrictions on DP games is worded is to stop 3 card poker. In 3 card poker, a straight beats a flush, so you could say that's not using standard poker hand rankings. Also, the pair plus bet (which attracts a lot of the players because of the chance for a 20x-40x bet score) seems to be eliminated if the DP is not required to pay more than 10x the minimum posted bet.

and if a DP has to play a regular player position for two hands after being the DP for 30 hands, then who is the DP for those 2 hands? Will the banking company have to provide two people to each table instead of one?

Right. But that book includes a lot of non 'poker" games. 3 Card Poker is in that book for example. Does that mean that the ranking of cards in the 3 Card Poker section of that book is a "poker ranking"? I don't think so but understand that an attorney wouldn't avoid making that argument.

I think DP games are bad for poker because they are casino table games that are being sold to regulators and politicians as "poker games." As someone that wants online poker to happen (although this compact makes it hard to see that happening anytime soon) I want to distance poker from any type of banked casino game because poker is a skill game not a casino game.

I think DP games could be good for the rooms, and I don't mind the DP games themselves I just don't like that they are sold as poker games. Poker has a hard enough time as it is distinguishing it from other forms of gambling. I don't want people including real casino games in the family of poker games and think other poker players would feel the same?

Florida gaming deal faces uncertain odds in Legislature

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politic...lature/2257009

Seminole compact raises prospect of gambling war

And more Florida gambling-politics-as-usual:

Is Rick Scott already getting cold feet on Seminole blackjack deal?

State senator files bill to create gaming commission

http://www.tbo.com/news/politics/sta...sion-20151222/

Good Idea.

Seminole gambling pact in Florida looks like a long shot

I don't know why the state keeps spending money on compact negotiations and trying to get it approved through the legislature. They should just buy some PowerBall tickets instead. Better odds.

Now that is funny

It is pretty funny at this point but I would still bet that it does get done. Its too much money to leave hanging and the PMs are going to come around.

No commission but decoupling and a ratified compact before the 17 session.

STATE FILES GAMBLING COMPLAINTS AGAINST RACETRACKS ACROSS FLORIDA

http://floridapolitics.com/archives/199769-state

Interesting. I would assume that the DPMW decided to go forward with this because of:

Judge gives green light to Seminole Tribe gambling lawsuit

"Such games are usually a version of poker in which players take on each other, rather than playing against the house." From the Florida Politics Article.

Cutting edge reporting here...

This is why I have been so against these things PX. Its so hard to get people outside of gambling to understand how poker works and why its different from table games that confusing the issue with these kinds of games just makes the issue too complicated.

Its about time this happened and it will be interesting to see what happens from here. I think there is a clear link between the compact negotiations and the timing of this.

There is a senate reg affairs committee meeting today at 9am that I'm guessing also played a role here. The meeting should be particularly interesting now.

At the meeting last week a few of the senators kept bringing up the point that the pari-mutuels weren't getting anything out of the compact. Prohibiting these games now gives them something to gain from the deal.

It will also be interesting to see if any of the ones named stop offering the games. I'm guessing they keep playing.

Why would they keep running "designated player games" if they face the possibility of losing their operating permits?

They will fold faster than a nit holding 22 on a akq board........

Looking at Tampa Bay Downs (Silks) on Bravo, they currently have One 3 card table going and One Ultimate Texas Holdem going.

Florida moves to legalize fantasy sports but status of some poker games gets murky

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/poli...e56926858.html

It looks like they going to legalize Fantasy Sports in Florida and write it into the new compact.